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Date: 29 Jan 2009 01:01:56
From:
Subject: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
into the stands.

Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
back and they have a rally
with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.

You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
who has the better serve.




 
Date: 30 Jan 2009 09:34:29
From:
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On Jan 30, 10:32=A0am, "xami...@gmail.com" <xami...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 29 jan, 12:04, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 29, 5:29=A0am, "xami...@gmail.com" <xami...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 29 jan, 10:28, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 29, 4:18=A0am, Carey <carey_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> > > > > > anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> > > > > > into the stands.
>
> > > > > > Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy get=
s it
> > > > > > back and they have a rally
> > > > > > with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> > > > > > You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proo=
f of
> > > > > > who has the better serve.
>
> > > > > Umm... Fed has already broken Roddick *twice*. =A0:)
>
> > > > Sure, but that's because the *rest of the game* matters too :)
>
> > > > Did you notice the ace count for the first set was 1 to 1. Yet Andy
> > > > had many more unreturnables.
>
> > > And still broken twice.
> > > So according to you, Andy only needs to improve in 1st serve % to go
> > > into breakers anytime?
>
> > > Such tactics didn't worked out that much for Goran, who had weaker
> > > groundstrockes than Andy, =A0but both better serve & volleys... Or
> > > weaker passers, since -whiskey won't ever be too gratefull- Courier
> > > told us "you are good as your opponent let you be"
>
> > > Share & Enjoy,
> > > Manolo- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > No, actually Roddick has a great first serve %
>
> > But he just can't reliably win points against Roger when the serve
> > comes back. That's
> > obviously because Fed does everything else better than Andy.
>
> > In their matches, Fed averages probably 1 break a set. That means that
> > 5 out of every 6 service
> > games Roddick's serve is too good.That one time it isn't he gets
> > broken.
>
> > And then if Roddick can't convert the one or two break points he has
> > the whole match on Roger's serve he loses in
> > straights.
>
> For what I saw in most of Roddick / Federer matches, Fed was able to
> break Andy' serve on a near "on demand" basis.
> When Federer wants (needs) to break Roddick'serve, he breaks it.
> That's that simple.
> It has so much to see with how hard Federer is wanting a break than
> with Roddick' serve "too good" "5 out of 6" times.
> Roger is breaking Andy'serve more than once a set.
>
> Either you're blind, biased, or watching tennis for too short.
>
> Share & Enjoy,
> Manolo- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why are you flamethrowing? I'm not blind. I try to be as unbiased as
possible
even though I'm sure it's impossible to be completely unbiased. And
I've been watching
tennis since the late 1970s.

As far as Fed breaking at will, I see your point to a degree. Fed does
seem to bear down at crucial points
and get the ball back any way he can and then Andy makes a slice
approach error, or his approach is
not good enough and Fed passes him.

But Andy has an incredible serve and if he puts it in and hits his
spots he wins the point. Period. Against anyone
he plays. If Roger could break it at will, he would. You think at USO
06 he wanted the score to be a set-all and 5-5?


 
Date: 30 Jan 2009 07:50:34
From: kaennorsing
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On 30 jan, 16:32, "xami...@gmail.com" <xami...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 29 jan, 12:04, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > No, actually Roddick has a great first serve %
>
> > But he just can't reliably win points against Roger when the serve
> > comes back. That's
> > obviously because Fed does everything else better than Andy.
>
> > In their matches, Fed averages probably 1 break a set. That means that
> > 5 out of every 6 service
> > games Roddick's serve is too good.That one time it isn't he gets
> > broken.
>
> > And then if Roddick can't convert the one or two break points he has
> > the whole match on Roger's serve he loses in
> > straights.
>
> For what I saw in most of Roddick / Federer matches, Fed was able to
> break Andy' serve on a near "on demand" basis.
> When Federer wants (needs) to break Roddick'serve, he breaks it.
> That's that simple.
> It has so much to see with how hard Federer is wanting a break than
> with Roddick' serve "too good" "5 out of 6" times.
> Roger is breaking Andy'serve more than once a set.

Specially true on a slowish court like the AO. Roddick holds serve a
little more often at W and USO. But then, so does Fed.


 
Date: 30 Jan 2009 07:32:52
From: xamigax@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On 29 jan, 12:04, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 29, 5:29=A0am, "xami...@gmail.com" <xami...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 29 jan, 10:28, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 29, 4:18=A0am, Carey <carey_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> > > > > anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> > > > > into the stands.
>
> > > > > Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets =
it
> > > > > back and they have a rally
> > > > > with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> > > > > You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof =
of
> > > > > who has the better serve.
>
> > > > Umm... Fed has already broken Roddick *twice*. =A0:)
>
> > > Sure, but that's because the *rest of the game* matters too :)
>
> > > Did you notice the ace count for the first set was 1 to 1. Yet Andy
> > > had many more unreturnables.
>
> > And still broken twice.
> > So according to you, Andy only needs to improve in 1st serve % to go
> > into breakers anytime?
>
> > Such tactics didn't worked out that much for Goran, who had weaker
> > groundstrockes than Andy, =A0but both better serve & volleys... Or
> > weaker passers, since -whiskey won't ever be too gratefull- Courier
> > told us "you are good as your opponent let you be"
>
> > Share & Enjoy,
> > Manolo- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> No, actually Roddick has a great first serve %
>
> But he just can't reliably win points against Roger when the serve
> comes back. That's
> obviously because Fed does everything else better than Andy.
>
> In their matches, Fed averages probably 1 break a set. That means that
> 5 out of every 6 service
> games Roddick's serve is too good.That one time it isn't he gets
> broken.
>
> And then if Roddick can't convert the one or two break points he has
> the whole match on Roger's serve he loses in
> straights.

For what I saw in most of Roddick / Federer matches, Fed was able to
break Andy' serve on a near "on demand" basis.
When Federer wants (needs) to break Roddick'serve, he breaks it.
That's that simple.
It has so much to see with how hard Federer is wanting a break than
with Roddick' serve "too good" "5 out of 6" times.
Roger is breaking Andy'serve more than once a set.

Either you're blind, biased, or watching tennis for too short.


Share & Enjoy,
Manolo


 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 07:20:45
From:
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On Jan 29, 8:34=A0am, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net > wrote:
> jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 29, 4:05 am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
> >> <jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:4e0b8df8-e332-441b-85f8-d7ab8b2f101f@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com..=
.
>
> >>> Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> >>> anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> >>> into the stands.
> >>> Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
> >>> back and they have a rally
> >>> with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
> >>> You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
> >>> who has the better serve.
> >> No one ever denied Andy had a top 2 serve.
>
> > Ask Vari whose serve he thinks is better between Fed/Roddick.
>
> Against most players, Roddick's. His pace is pretty much unparalleled.
> Imagine what it could be with accuracy and disguise!
>
> But you have to take into account how serves hold up against the
> returner across the net. Against Federer, Roddick's serve is usually
> second best by the 3rd set for sure when a few mph wears off. As a match
> wears on, Federer knows more and more where Roddick's serve is going and
> Roddick knows less and less about where Federer's serve is going.
>
> So you tell me!
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> vc- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OK, I can live with that. The gap is larger between the effectiveness
or quality of Fed's serve and Roddick's return than between the
effectiveness of Roddick's serve and Fed's return.


 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 03:04:41
From:
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On Jan 29, 5:29=A0am, "xami...@gmail.com" <xami...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 29 jan, 10:28, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 29, 4:18=A0am, Carey <carey_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> > > > anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> > > > into the stands.
>
> > > > Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
> > > > back and they have a rally
> > > > with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> > > > You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
> > > > who has the better serve.
>
> > > Umm... Fed has already broken Roddick *twice*. =A0:)
>
> > Sure, but that's because the *rest of the game* matters too :)
>
> > Did you notice the ace count for the first set was 1 to 1. Yet Andy
> > had many more unreturnables.
>
> And still broken twice.
> So according to you, Andy only needs to improve in 1st serve % to go
> into breakers anytime?
>
> Such tactics didn't worked out that much for Goran, who had weaker
> groundstrockes than Andy, =A0but both better serve & volleys... Or
> weaker passers, since -whiskey won't ever be too gratefull- Courier
> told us "you are good as your opponent let you be"
>
> Share & Enjoy,
> Manolo- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, actually Roddick has a great first serve %

But he just can't reliably win points against Roger when the serve
comes back. That's
obviously because Fed does everything else better than Andy.

In their matches, Fed averages probably 1 break a set. That means that
5 out of every 6 service
games Roddick's serve is too good.That one time it isn't he gets
broken.

And then if Roddick can't convert the one or two break points he has
the whole match on Roger's serve he loses in
straights.


 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 03:00:47
From: Lax
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On Jan 29, 5:54=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 29, 3:32=A0pm, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 29, 4:05=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>
> > > <jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:4e0b8df8-e332-441b-85f8-d7ab8b2f101f@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com.=
..
>
> > > > Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> > > > anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> > > > into the stands.
>
> > > > Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
> > > > back and they have a rally
> > > > with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> > > > You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
> > > > who has the better serve.
>
> > > No one ever denied Andy had a top 2 serve.
>
> > Ask Vari whose serve he thinks is better between Fed/Roddick.
>
> What good is a serve if you can't hold?
>

Your question is dumb.


 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 02:54:59
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On Jan 29, 3:32=A0pm, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 29, 4:05=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:4e0b8df8-e332-441b-85f8-d7ab8b2f101f@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> > > anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> > > into the stands.
>
> > > Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
> > > back and they have a rally
> > > with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> > > You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
> > > who has the better serve.
>
> > No one ever denied Andy had a top 2 serve.
>
> Ask Vari whose serve he thinks is better between Fed/Roddick.

What good is a serve if you can't hold?


 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 02:29:43
From: xamigax@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On 29 jan, 10:28, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 29, 4:18=A0am, Carey <carey_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> > > anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> > > into the stands.
>
> > > Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
> > > back and they have a rally
> > > with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> > > You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
> > > who has the better serve.
>
> > Umm... Fed has already broken Roddick *twice*. =A0:)
>
> Sure, but that's because the *rest of the game* matters too :)
>
> Did you notice the ace count for the first set was 1 to 1. Yet Andy
> had many more unreturnables.

And still broken twice.
So according to you, Andy only needs to improve in 1st serve % to go
into breakers anytime?

Such tactics didn't worked out that much for Goran, who had weaker
groundstrockes than Andy, but both better serve & volleys... Or
weaker passers, since -whiskey won't ever be too gratefull- Courier
told us "you are good as your opponent let you be"

Share & Enjoy,
Manolo


 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 01:32:35
From:
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On Jan 29, 4:05=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com > wrote:
> <jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4e0b8df8-e332-441b-85f8-d7ab8b2f101f@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> > anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> > into the stands.
>
> > Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
> > back and they have a rally
> > with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> > You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
> > who has the better serve.
>
> No one ever denied Andy had a top 2 serve.

Ask Vari whose serve he thinks is better between Fed/Roddick.


  
Date: 29 Jan 2009 13:34:32
From: Vari L. Cinicke
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
jasoncatlin1971@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 29, 4:05 am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>> <jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4e0b8df8-e332-441b-85f8-d7ab8b2f101f@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
>>> anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
>>> into the stands.
>>> Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
>>> back and they have a rally
>>> with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>>> You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
>>> who has the better serve.
>> No one ever denied Andy had a top 2 serve.
>
> Ask Vari whose serve he thinks is better between Fed/Roddick.

Against most players, Roddick's. His pace is pretty much unparalleled.
Imagine what it could be with accuracy and disguise!

But you have to take into account how serves hold up against the
returner across the net. Against Federer, Roddick's serve is usually
second best by the 3rd set for sure when a few mph wears off. As a match
wears on, Federer knows more and more where Roddick's serve is going and
Roddick knows less and less about where Federer's serve is going.

So you tell me!

--
Cheers,

vc


 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 01:28:10
From:
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
On Jan 29, 4:18=A0am, Carey <carey_1...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> > anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> > into the stands.
>
> > Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
> > back and they have a rally
> > with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> > You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
> > who has the better serve.
>
> Umm... Fed has already broken Roddick *twice*. =A0:)

Sure, but that's because the *rest of the game* matters too :)

Did you notice the ace count for the first set was 1 to 1. Yet Andy
had many more unreturnables.


 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 01:18:21
From: Carey
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's


jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> into the stands.
>
> Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
> back and they have a rally
> with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
> who has the better serve.

Umm... Fed has already broken Roddick *twice*. :)


 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 09:05:09
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
<jasoncatlin1971@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:4e0b8df8-e332-441b-85f8-d7ab8b2f101f@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> Andy hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Roger (or
> anyone) *foul-tips* the ball
> into the stands.
>
> Roger hits a very good but less than perfect serve and Andy gets it
> back and they have a rally
> with usually ends up with Roger hitting a baseline winner.
>
> You can't go by just ace counts at the end of the match as proof of
> who has the better serve.


No one ever denied Andy had a top 2 serve.



 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 01:04:51
From: Lax
Subject: Re: Already this match is proof Roddick's serve is better than Fed's
2nd fact: My volleys are better than Roddick's