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Date: 24 Jan 2009 02:33:18
From: Davide Tosi
Subject: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?
No names spanish players like medina-garrigues and suarez-navarro are
winning matches they were not supposed to win and one of them will
reach quarterfinals.
This looks very suspect to me. We all know that spain has been the
land of free doping for the last few decades. Is there a chance that
some of their 'doctor mabuse' like eufemiano fuentes recycled
themselves passing from cycling to tennis?




 
Date: 26 Jan 2009 14:20:33
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?

"Davide Tosi" wrote
> No names spanish players like medina-garrigues and suarez-navarro are
> winning matches they were not supposed to win and one of them will
> reach quarterfinals.
> This looks very suspect to me. We all know that spain has been the
> land of free doping for the last few decades. Is there a chance that
> some of their 'doctor mabuse' like eufemiano fuentes recycled
> themselves passing from cycling to tennis?

Come on! Your post is below the belt because it is essentially fact free.
Spain always was a force in tennis and it has seen a resurgence in all kinds
of sporting accomplishments that are more easily linked to strong economic
expansion and gradual recovery from a dark political past than anything
else. To label Spain as "the land of free doping" when several other
countries have at least as many doping scandals, your own country being one
of the leading examples (Dr Mabuse and all that), can only be qualified as
willfull blindness.




 
Date: 25 Jan 2009 15:09:39
From: xamigax@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?
On 24 jan, 02:33, Davide Tosi <clearblue...@libero.it > wrote:
> No names spanish players like medina-garrigues and suarez-navarro are
> winning matches they were not supposed to win and one of them will
> reach quarterfinals.
> This looks very suspect to me. We all know that spain has been the
> land of free doping for the last few decades. Is there a chance that
> some of their 'doctor mabuse' like eufemiano fuentes recycled
> themselves passing from cycling to tennis?

I have little doubts myself (despite having 3 spanish grand'something:
2grandady & obviously 1grandma!).
Not about the girls you pointed, for I only saw Suarez-Navarro, wich
is a very talented player.
Should remember her last French: simply amazing.
Yet, spaniards starting to win all over, is something curious... For
they used to be the best opponents to France unofficial title of
"world class champion for anything that does NOT count!"
I wish I had access to the spanish version of Dr Mabuse, infamous
Fuentes's files...
Would be very instructing readings, I guess.


Share & Enjoy,
Manolo


  
Date: 26 Jan 2009 16:47:11
From: xamigax@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?
On 27 jan, 00:54, "Bob" <B...@bob.com > wrote:
> <xami...@gmail.com> wrote
> On 26 jan, 23:31, "Bob" <B...@bob.com> wrote:
>
> > <xami...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > > I wasn't the only one out there not to be "happy" with the result of
> > > that SF... More were having the same questions.
>
> > More importantly, how many had actual evidence to support their wild
> > speculations?
>
> None.
> I am not doctor in sport medicine, neither are the ones I was thinking
> of.
>
> What we have in common was:
> all playing social & club tennis
> none having seen Nadal for the first time (I mean, not only on tv)
> all very surprised with such high & low during a so short time
> the day after we were still a bit surprised of how unhelpfull his
> resting night had been to Nadal
> most having used drugs (when younger, some still), including coca=EFne.
> all aware of what Spain is in fact: drugs supermarket for south europe
> (and growing)
> all having heard of Dr Fuentes and his "good" advices in cycling or
> football
>
> From a police point of view, in french we call this "un faisceau de
> pr=E9somptions" (a set of presumptions); and this, in a civil trial, can
> be taken as evidence.
> *********************************
>
> What 'faisceau"? Nadal having an energy high & low that can be explained =
by
> a variety of factors (diet, fitness, injury, etc..) and your experience w=
ith
> recreational drugs doesn't constitute a 'faisceau de presomptions' for sp=
ort
> doping. I am sure on the other hand that your heard of the presumption of
> innocence, which doesn't require any interpretation of its meaning. Do
> yourself a favor: quit enabling unsubstantiated rumors.

Please, do myself a favor, start explaining what is a substantiated
rumor :-)

Never said that social drug usage as anything to do with sport doping,
have I?

Don't be stupid, if Nadal was injuried he would have called for kine/
dr. He did not.

Diet? must be joking, not the kind of stuff you can fix in five
minutes, while playing MS SF.
We saw what he did while changing side: eat few bananas & drink stuff,
possibly a stomac (magnesium?) help, from the formfactor of the
package.

fitness? can't see your point, since that was the very subject of our
questions. How can he all of a sudden discover new stamina?

Last but not least: I am in no way "enabling" rumors... This is only a
NG for tennis lovers/players, not a gossip mag, nowhere near as a
rolling stone or avalanche starter.
Most RSTers have allready heard of sport doping, Dr Fuentes & his
celebrity list, no?
Plus, this is no news anyway, I have read some "real" (in L'Equipe,
only french sportpaper, huge audience) rumors (I am not saying that
things written in any newspaper are right, only that you can call
"rumor" something coming from a real "loud speaker", like l'Equipe)
saying that Nadal's name was on some Fuentes list, just as this
scandal poped up.
And they have much bigger care for "innocence presumption" than me,
not wanting too many trials.

Share & Enjoy,
Manolo


  
Date: 26 Jan 2009 15:25:18
From: xamigax@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?
On 26 jan, 23:31, "Bob" <B...@bob.com > wrote:
> <xami...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > I wasn't the only one out there not to be "happy" with the result of
> > that SF... More were having the same questions.
>
> More importantly, how many had actual evidence to support their wild
> speculations?

None.
I am not doctor in sport medicine, neither are the ones I was thinking
of.

What we have in common was:
all playing social & club tennis
none having seen Nadal for the first time (I mean, not only on tv)
all very surprised with such high & low during a so short time
the day after we were still a bit surprised of how unhelpfull his
resting night had been to Nadal
most having used drugs (when younger, some still), including coca=EFne.
all aware of what Spain is in fact: drugs supermarket for south europe
(and growing)
all having heard of Dr Fuentes and his "good" advices in cycling or
football

From a police point of view, in french we call this "un faisceau de
pr=E9somptions" (a set of presumptions); and this, in a civil trial, can
be taken as evidence.

Next question?

Share & Enjoy,
Manolo


   
Date: 26 Jan 2009 15:54:04
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?

<xamigax@gmail.com > wrote
On 26 jan, 23:31, "Bob" <B...@bob.com > wrote:
> <xami...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > I wasn't the only one out there not to be "happy" with the result of
> > that SF... More were having the same questions.
>
> More importantly, how many had actual evidence to support their wild
> speculations?

None.
I am not doctor in sport medicine, neither are the ones I was thinking
of.

What we have in common was:
all playing social & club tennis
none having seen Nadal for the first time (I mean, not only on tv)
all very surprised with such high & low during a so short time
the day after we were still a bit surprised of how unhelpfull his
resting night had been to Nadal
most having used drugs (when younger, some still), including cocaïne.
all aware of what Spain is in fact: drugs supermarket for south europe
(and growing)
all having heard of Dr Fuentes and his "good" advices in cycling or
football

From a police point of view, in french we call this "un faisceau de
présomptions" (a set of presumptions); and this, in a civil trial, can
be taken as evidence.
*********************************

What 'faisceau"? Nadal having an energy high & low that can be explained by
a variety of factors (diet, fitness, injury, etc..) and your experience with
recreational drugs doesn't constitute a 'faisceau de presomptions' for sport
doping. I am sure on the other hand that your heard of the presumption of
innocence, which doesn't require any interpretation of its meaning. Do
yourself a favor: quit enabling unsubstantiated rumors.




  
Date: 26 Jan 2009 12:38:28
From: xamigax@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?
On 26 jan, 16:10, wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article
> <9bcc16db-2885-499a-8534-7ad091b28...@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>,
>
> xami...@gmail.com () wrote:
>
> > I have little doubts myself (despite having 3 spanish
> > grand'something:
> > 2grandady & obviously 1grandma!).
> > Not about the girls you pointed, for I only saw Suarez-Navarro, wich
> > is a very talented player.
> > Should remember her last French: simply amazing.
> > Yet, spaniards starting to win all over, is something curious... For
> > they used to be the best opponents to France unofficial title of
> > "world class champion for anything that does NOT count!"
> > I wish I had access to the spanish version of Dr Mabuse, infamous
> > Fuentes's files...
> > Would be very instructing readings, I guess.
>
> Well, I can't judge the drug situation, but Spain has been a force in the
> game for 20 years now - Casal, the Sanchez family, Martinez, and now the
> current crop. The Sanchez-Casal academy, which also trained Murray and
> Kuznetsova for some years, might have something to do with the ability of
> the current generation, too.
>
> wg

I know all this, even Safin (if he can be taken as a model of success,
tennis wise) learned clay in Barcelona.
Yet I just can't forget what I saw at last year Paris MS SF...
I had never seen Nadal with such body language (head down almost
shoegazer, zero fist pumping...) for the 2/3 of the match.
Baghdatis was kind (or choker, for whisperians) enough not to win the
first set, but he blasted Rafa in the second, and bang! out of
nowhere, Nadal rose after a side change in the middle of the third
set, doing again his cinema (fist pumping, ass-picking, socks adjust
for ever before serve...).
It's a different story than what you maybe had on tv-screen, unless
you were lucky not to have ads between games.

I still don't know what the fuck has happened, but Nadal won.
I know you have real knowledge of tennis, so I guess you remember how
badly Nadal lost to Nalbandian on the next match...
All I can tell you is that for the equivalent of two sets (about the
same number of played games) Nadal looked as much dominated by both
players.
But he had lost only one of two.

I wasn't the only one out there not to be "happy" with the result of
that SF... More were having the same questions.

Share & Enjoy,
Manolo


   
Date: 26 Jan 2009 14:31:02
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?

<xamigax@gmail.com > wrote
> I wasn't the only one out there not to be "happy" with the result of
> that SF... More were having the same questions.

More importantly, how many had actual evidence to support their wild
speculations?




  
Date: 26 Jan 2009 09:10:52
From:
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?
In article
<9bcc16db-2885-499a-8534-7ad091b28b16@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com >,
xamigax@gmail.com () wrote:

>
> I have little doubts myself (despite having 3 spanish
> grand'something:
> 2grandady & obviously 1grandma!).
> Not about the girls you pointed, for I only saw Suarez-Navarro, wich
> is a very talented player.
> Should remember her last French: simply amazing.
> Yet, spaniards starting to win all over, is something curious... For
> they used to be the best opponents to France unofficial title of
> "world class champion for anything that does NOT count!"
> I wish I had access to the spanish version of Dr Mabuse, infamous
> Fuentes's files...
> Would be very instructing readings, I guess.

Well, I can't judge the drug situation, but Spain has been a force in the
game for 20 years now - Casal, the Sanchez family, Martinez, and now the
current crop. The Sanchez-Casal academy, which also trained Murray and
Kuznetsova for some years, might have something to do with the ability of
the current generation, too.

wg


 
Date: 23 Jan 2009 19:26:38
From: Pedro Dias
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?
On Jan 23, 8:33=A0pm, Davide Tosi <clearblue...@libero.it > wrote:
> No names spanish players like medina-garrigues and suarez-navarro are
> winning matches they were not supposed to win and one of them will
> reach quarterfinals.
> This looks very suspect to me. We all know that spain has been the
> land of free doping for the last few decades. Is there a chance that
> some of their 'doctor mabuse' like eufemiano fuentes recycled
> themselves passing from cycling to tennis?

This wouldn't happen to have anything to do with Medina Garrigues
beating Pennetta, would it, Signore?


  
Date: 24 Jan 2009 19:58:48
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:26:38 -0800 (PST), Pedro Dias
<pedrodias@snip.net > wrote:

>On Jan 23, 8:33 pm, Davide Tosi <clearblue...@libero.it> wrote:
>> No names spanish players like medina-garrigues and suarez-navarro are
>> winning matches they were not supposed to win and one of them will
>> reach quarterfinals.
>> This looks very suspect to me. We all know that spain has been the
>> land of free doping for the last few decades. Is there a chance that
>> some of their 'doctor mabuse' like eufemiano fuentes recycled
>> themselves passing from cycling to tennis?
>
>This wouldn't happen to have anything to do with Medina Garrigues
>beating Pennetta, would it, Signore?

Good catch. Surprising result, that one.


 
Date: 23 Jan 2009 21:28:10
From: mimus
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 02:33:18 +0100, Davide Tosi wrote:

> No names spanish players like medina-garrigues and suarez-navarro are
> winning matches they were not supposed to win and one of them will
> reach quarterfinals.
> This looks very suspect to me. We all know that spain has been the
> land of free doping for the last few decades. Is there a chance that
> some of their 'doctor mabuse' like eufemiano fuentes recycled
> themselves passing from cycling to tennis?

It's more likely simply that the damned AO courts are whatever the Spanish
phrase or word is for "amazingly slow".

Kind of like playing on sand-paper, from all reports.

I imagine Hewitt has uttered more than a few choice words about the matter.

And, anyway, Dr. Fuentes has been too busy burning Rafa's records to worry
about anything else.

--

Take a deep breath, take a walk, cool off, plot a bit, and serve again.




  
Date: 25 Jan 2009 15:10:28
From: xamigax@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Are spaniards back to their old doping tricks?

> It's more likely simply that the damned AO courts are whatever the Spanish
> phrase or word is for "amazingly slow".


Clayturf :-) (okay, easy one)


Share & Enjoy,
Manolo