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Date: 15 Jan 2009 20:52:08
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
gap! :)

Joe Ramirez




 
Date: 16 Jan 2009 11:37:17
From: Professor X
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
On Jan 16, 6:35=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> Professor X wrote:
> > On Jan 16, 5:53 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >> Professor X wrote:
> >>> On Jan 16, 5:03 am, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >>>> Joe Ramirez wrote:
> >>>>> Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
> >>>>> Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
> >>>>> gap! :)
> >>>>> Joe Ramirez
> >>>> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his =
own
> >>>> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
> >>>> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was s=
een
> >>>> in 2007.
> >>>> I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable ang=
les.
> >>>> Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sor=
ts.
> >>>> --
> >>>> "Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
> >>>> singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"
> >>> Surely the whole point of being "the best" is that you produce it on =
a
> >>> regular basis. Since I can absolutely smash winners off my forehand
> >>> (when it goes in) does that mean that if I were playing my "best" it
> >>> would go in all the time?
> >>> maybe then i could beat frauderer if your argument is true.
> >> You can. Have you seen him play lol!
>
> >> But more seriously...Nalby played that level 2 consecutive tms
> >> events...which is of course not nearly as long time as Vines did...
>
> >> But this two weeks was long enough time to conclude that he can play a=
t
> >> very high level on a match, which my original comment was about; one
> >> match...Nalby beating Gasquet.
>
> >> But of course all this depends on the player party buffet.
>
> >> --
> >> "Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
> >> singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"
>
> > what if i were to bring up gasquet roddick wimby 07 Gasquet hit over
> > 100 winners to 28 unforced errors or something... maybe peak gasquet
> > is GOAT? It's just that he never produced the goods often enough
> > either.
>
> Well the line has to be drawn somewhere...one shot...one match...couple
> weeks...two bottles etc.
>
> --
> "Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
> singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"

Then lets all draw the line where we like!! That way we can all be
correct! :-D

If the line only has to be drawn 'somewhere,' then why not just draw
it anywhere?


 
Date: 16 Jan 2009 10:12:32
From: Professor X
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
On Jan 16, 5:53=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> Professor X wrote:
> > On Jan 16, 5:03 am, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >> Joe Ramirez wrote:
> >>> Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
> >>> Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
> >>> gap! :)
> >>> Joe Ramirez
> >> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his ow=
n
> >> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
> >> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was see=
n
> >> in 2007.
> >> I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable angle=
s.
>
> >> Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sorts=
.
>
> >> --
> >> "Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
> >> singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"
>
> > Surely the whole point of being "the best" is that you produce it on a
> > regular basis. Since I can absolutely smash winners off my forehand
> > (when it goes in) does that mean that if I were playing my "best" it
> > would go in all the time?
>
> > maybe then i could beat frauderer if your argument is true.
>
> You can. Have you seen him play lol!
>
> But more seriously...Nalby played that level 2 consecutive tms
> events...which is of course not nearly as long time as Vines did...
>
> But this two weeks was long enough time to conclude that he can play at
> very high level on a match, which my original comment was about; one
> match...Nalby beating Gasquet.
>
> But of course all this depends on the player party buffet.
>
> --
> "Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
> singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"

what if i were to bring up gasquet roddick wimby 07 Gasquet hit over
100 winners to 28 unforced errors or something... maybe peak gasquet
is GOAT? It's just that he never produced the goods often enough
either.


  
Date: 16 Jan 2009 20:35:33
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
Professor X wrote:
> On Jan 16, 5:53 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>> Professor X wrote:
>>> On Jan 16, 5:03 am, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>>> Joe Ramirez wrote:
>>>>> Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
>>>>> Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
>>>>> gap! :)
>>>>> Joe Ramirez
>>>> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
>>>> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
>>>> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
>>>> in 2007.
>>>> I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable angles.
>>>> Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sorts.
>>>> --
>>>> "Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
>>>> singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"
>>> Surely the whole point of being "the best" is that you produce it on a
>>> regular basis. Since I can absolutely smash winners off my forehand
>>> (when it goes in) does that mean that if I were playing my "best" it
>>> would go in all the time?
>>> maybe then i could beat frauderer if your argument is true.
>> You can. Have you seen him play lol!
>>
>> But more seriously...Nalby played that level 2 consecutive tms
>> events...which is of course not nearly as long time as Vines did...
>>
>> But this two weeks was long enough time to conclude that he can play at
>> very high level on a match, which my original comment was about; one
>> match...Nalby beating Gasquet.
>>
>> But of course all this depends on the player party buffet.
>>
>> --
>> "Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
>> singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"
>
> what if i were to bring up gasquet roddick wimby 07 Gasquet hit over
> 100 winners to 28 unforced errors or something... maybe peak gasquet
> is GOAT? It's just that he never produced the goods often enough
> either.

Well the line has to be drawn somewhere...one shot...one match...couple
weeks...two bottles etc.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 16 Jan 2009 09:21:40
From: Professor X
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
On Jan 16, 5:03=A0am, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> Joe Ramirez wrote:
> > Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
> > Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
> > gap! :)
>
> > Joe Ramirez
>
> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
> in 2007.
> I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable angles.
>
> Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sorts.
>
> --
> "Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
> singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"

Surely the whole point of being "the best" is that you produce it on a
regular basis. Since I can absolutely smash winners off my forehand
(when it goes in) does that mean that if I were playing my "best" it
would go in all the time?

maybe then i could beat frauderer if your argument is true.


  
Date: 16 Jan 2009 19:53:05
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
Professor X wrote:
> On Jan 16, 5:03 am, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>> Joe Ramirez wrote:
>>> Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
>>> Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
>>> gap! :)
>>> Joe Ramirez
>> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
>> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
>> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
>> in 2007.
>> I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable angles.
>>
>> Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sorts.
>>
>> --
>> "Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
>> singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"
>
> Surely the whole point of being "the best" is that you produce it on a
> regular basis. Since I can absolutely smash winners off my forehand
> (when it goes in) does that mean that if I were playing my "best" it
> would go in all the time?
>
> maybe then i could beat frauderer if your argument is true.

You can. Have you seen him play lol!

But more seriously...Nalby played that level 2 consecutive tms
events...which is of course not nearly as long time as Vines did...

But this two weeks was long enough time to conclude that he can play at
very high level on a match, which my original comment was about; one
match...Nalby beating Gasquet.

But of course all this depends on the player party buffet.


--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 16 Jan 2009 04:50:55
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
On 16 Jan., 18:18, Jason Catlin <jason-cat...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 15, 11:52=A0pm, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
> > Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
> > gap! :)
>
> > Joe Ramirez
>
> He's certainly not too old to make some noise. Fed's seemingly not
> quite the same player he
> was, so let's see if Nalbandian can put a big run together and win a
> Slam late in is career.

For the sake of Federer's legacy, right?


 
Date: 16 Jan 2009 04:18:18
From: Jason Catlin
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
On Jan 15, 11:52=A0pm, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com > wrote:
> Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
> Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
> gap! :)
>
> Joe Ramirez

He's certainly not too old to make some noise. Fed's seemingly not
quite the same player he
was, so let's see if Nalbandian can put a big run together and win a
Slam late in is career.


 
Date: 16 Jan 2009 00:47:32
From: kaennorsing
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
On 16 jan, 06:25, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com > wrote:
> On Jan 16, 12:03=A0am, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>
> > Joe Ramirez wrote:
> > > Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
> > > Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
> > > gap! :)
>
> > > Joe Ramirez
>
> > Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
> > generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
> > His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
> > in 2007.
> > I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable angles=
.
>
> > Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sorts.
>
> Personally, I would have a difficult time ranking a player with 0 hard
> court slams ahead of a player with 8 hard court slams. Maybe that's
> just me. But when the discrepancy is that great, I don't think the "at
> his best" qualifier gets you very far. It becomes almost purely
> hypothetical. "At his best," Safin is GOAT with 15 slams. At his best,
> Mecir won the calendar grand slam one glorious year in the 1980s. At
> his best, Tsonga was undefeated last year. I will agree that a fresh
> Nalbandian on *indoor* hard courts against a somewhat fatigued field
> is a formidable force. That's what we saw in 2007. I also agree about
> the pleasing point construction.
>
> Joe Ramirez

Well, TT has a hard time putting in perspective whatever it is that he
'sees'. Especially when it comes to hard court tennis, it seems.

But you have to forgive him; he saw a lot of hc tennis in the last few
years, so you can imagine him being quite confused.


  
Date: 16 Jan 2009 11:10:55
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
kaennorsing wrote:
> On 16 jan, 06:25, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 16, 12:03 am, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe Ramirez wrote:
>>>> Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
>>>> Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
>>>> gap! :)
>>>> Joe Ramirez
>>> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
>>> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
>>> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
>>> in 2007.
>>> I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable angles.
>>> Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sorts.
>> Personally, I would have a difficult time ranking a player with 0 hard
>> court slams ahead of a player with 8 hard court slams. Maybe that's
>> just me. But when the discrepancy is that great, I don't think the "at
>> his best" qualifier gets you very far. It becomes almost purely
>> hypothetical. "At his best," Safin is GOAT with 15 slams. At his best,
>> Mecir won the calendar grand slam one glorious year in the 1980s. At
>> his best, Tsonga was undefeated last year. I will agree that a fresh
>> Nalbandian on *indoor* hard courts against a somewhat fatigued field
>> is a formidable force. That's what we saw in 2007. I also agree about
>> the pleasing point construction.
>>
>> Joe Ramirez
>
> Well, TT has a hard time putting in perspective whatever it is that he
> 'sees'. Especially when it comes to hard court tennis, it seems.
>
> But you have to forgive him; he saw a lot of hc tennis in the last few
> years, so you can imagine him being quite confused.

I merely presented my opinion...Why do you try to insult me?

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 16 Jan 2009 00:37:21
From: kaennorsing
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
On 16 jan, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:

> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
> in 2007.

Yes, his best level is the highest on hardcourts as seen by you in
2007.

> That is of course my personal opinion which you may or may not agree
> with. Nalbandian played strongest hard court game I've ever seen during
> that short stretch at 2007.

Sure, we can all agree during that stretch he played the strongest
hard court game you've ever seen.

> Especially match against Nadal was something
> else...unplayable angles time and time again.

Of course... What about Davydenko and Youzhny? Didn't they play the
strongest hard court game you've ever seen during the stretch when
they crushed Nadal?

> I'm not the only one talking about best level of play..."In the opinion
> of Jack Kramer, himself a great player, Vines was, along with Don Budge
> one of the two greatest players who ever lived. Budge was consistently
> the best, according to Kramer's 1979 autobiography, but, at the very top
> of his game, Vines was unbeatable by anyone"

But you are not Kramer, you're not a tennis legend and you are not
talking about Vines or anyone considered by any tennis legend to be
one of the two greatest players ever.


  
Date: 16 Jan 2009 11:06:42
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
kaennorsing wrote:
> On 16 jan, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>
>> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
>> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
>> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
>> in 2007.
>
> Yes, his best level is the highest on hardcourts as seen by you in
> 2007.
>
>> That is of course my personal opinion which you may or may not agree
>> with. Nalbandian played strongest hard court game I've ever seen during
>> that short stretch at 2007.
>
> Sure, we can all agree during that stretch he played the strongest
> hard court game you've ever seen.
>
>> Especially match against Nadal was something
>> else...unplayable angles time and time again.
>
> Of course... What about Davydenko and Youzhny? Didn't they play the
> strongest hard court game you've ever seen during the stretch when
> they crushed Nadal?
>
>> I'm not the only one talking about best level of play..."In the opinion
>> of Jack Kramer, himself a great player, Vines was, along with Don Budge
>> one of the two greatest players who ever lived. Budge was consistently
>> the best, according to Kramer's 1979 autobiography, but, at the very top
>> of his game, Vines was unbeatable by anyone"
>
> But you are not Kramer, you're not a tennis legend and you are not
> talking about Vines or anyone considered by any tennis legend to be
> one of the two greatest players ever.

You're a clown.


--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 15 Jan 2009 21:25:34
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
On Jan 16, 12:03=A0am, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> Joe Ramirez wrote:
> > Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
> > Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
> > gap! :)
>
> > Joe Ramirez
>
> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
> in 2007.
> I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable angles.
>
> Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sorts.

Personally, I would have a difficult time ranking a player with 0 hard
court slams ahead of a player with 8 hard court slams. Maybe that's
just me. But when the discrepancy is that great, I don't think the "at
his best" qualifier gets you very far. It becomes almost purely
hypothetical. "At his best," Safin is GOAT with 15 slams. At his best,
Mecir won the calendar grand slam one glorious year in the 1980s. At
his best, Tsonga was undefeated last year. I will agree that a fresh
Nalbandian on *indoor* hard courts against a somewhat fatigued field
is a formidable force. That's what we saw in 2007. I also agree about
the pleasing point construction.

Joe Ramirez


  
Date: 16 Jan 2009 09:19:12
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
Joe Ramirez wrote:
> On Jan 16, 12:03 am, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>> Joe Ramirez wrote:
>>> Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
>>> Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
>>> gap! :)
>>> Joe Ramirez
>> Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
>> generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
>> His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
>> in 2007.
>> I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable angles.
>>
>> Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sorts.
>
> Personally, I would have a difficult time ranking a player with 0 hard
> court slams ahead of a player with 8 hard court slams. Maybe that's
> just me. But when the discrepancy is that great, I don't think the "at
> his best" qualifier gets you very far. It becomes almost purely
> hypothetical. "At his best," Safin is GOAT with 15 slams. At his best,
> Mecir won the calendar grand slam one glorious year in the 1980s. At
> his best, Tsonga was undefeated last year. I will agree that a fresh
> Nalbandian on *indoor* hard courts against a somewhat fatigued field
> is a formidable force. That's what we saw in 2007. I also agree about
> the pleasing point construction.
>
> Joe Ramirez

That is of course my personal opinion which you may or may not agree
with. Nalbandian played strongest hard court game I've ever seen during
that short stretch at 2007. Especially match against Nadal was something
else...unplayable angles time and time again.

I'm not the only one talking about best level of play..."In the opinion
of Jack Kramer, himself a great player, Vines was, along with Don Budge
one of the two greatest players who ever lived. Budge was consistently
the best, according to Kramer's 1979 autobiography, but, at the very top
of his game, Vines was unbeatable by anyone"

...Kramer lifted Budge and Vines over likes of Tilden, Rosewall, Laver
etc...

The difference here of course is that I don't lift Nalbandian over
established greats, I simply state that Nalbandian's _best level_ is
better than theirs.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 16 Jan 2009 05:19:01
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
"Joe Ramirez" <josephmramirez@netzero.com > wrote in message
news:b0d1257e-4cf6-48fd-83f2-c518edac954f@m12g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
> Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
> gap! :)
>
> Joe Ramirez


Gasquet is a disgrace to the "new balls".



 
Date: 16 Jan 2009 07:03:13
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer generation also-ran crushes Nadal generation also-ran
Joe Ramirez wrote:
> Well, perhaps not "crushes." Nalbandian d. Gasquet 6-4, 6-3.
> Nalbandian is now 7-0 vs. Gasquet -- clearly a giant generation
> gap! :)
>
> Joe Ramirez

Well Nalby at his best is way better than any of the current or his own
generation players(including Federer)...on hc.
His best level play of play is the highest on hardcourts. This was seen
in 2007.
I love his active point construction with all those unbelievable angles.

Quite an underachiever on the slam title front. Wasted talent of sorts.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"