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Date: 09 Jan 2009 10:58:35
From: Sao Paulo Swallow
Subject: Federer's coaching situation
Any news about that? Or rumor?

He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
career.




 
Date: 10 Jan 2009 07:23:00
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 12:58=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> career.

Federer is uncoachable...


 
Date: 10 Jan 2009 01:49:29
From: kaennorsing
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 9 jan, 23:35, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > Fair enough if he's saving it all for slam matches, but who knows?
>
> Looking at Mirka's worried face Federer didn't save anything. And one
> doesn't want to give more confidence to your main rivals.
>
> Isn't that kind of talk same as Whisper's "wasn't arsed"...do you guys
> agree with Whisper and "Sampras wasn't arsed" -argument? I do not.

But there are a few differences to how he would have played compared
to a slam match.

First of all, his attacking game would be varied more with some good
solid, defensive efforts and rallies from *behind* the baseline. Many
points Fed lost yesterday he was in no mans land in the middle of the
court. Murray could simply put a defensive shot deep and force an
error from Fed.

Secondly, yes Federer definitely wanted to win. But he didn't want to
give his all for and extended period. This may be the downside of his
big ego (which was displayed beautifully yesterday). It can also turn
out to be the smartest thing to do. Since - even though both are good
in strategics and tactics - IMO Federer is the strategist, Murray the
tactician.

Also, the best of 3 matches against Murray are more difficult for
Federer because he knows that in order to beat Murray he has to be the
more aggressive player between the two. Making him somewhat tentative
in having to go for big shots without having much of a rhythm, and
understanding that by missing he can lose quickly.

I don't think we'll see Federer showing so much frustration in slam
play. He'll control his ego a little better and be more balanced
mentally, ready for a difficult match. Shrugging off any errors much
easier. Basically, in the slams there's less to think about and more
to play for. He will also have a few more matches to tune his game and
a days rest in between.


  
Date: 10 Jan 2009 23:39:09
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
kaennorsing wrote:
> On 9 jan, 23:35, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>> gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>> Fair enough if he's saving it all for slam matches, but who knows?
>> Looking at Mirka's worried face Federer didn't save anything. And one
>> doesn't want to give more confidence to your main rivals.
>>
>> Isn't that kind of talk same as Whisper's "wasn't arsed"...do you guys
>> agree with Whisper and "Sampras wasn't arsed" -argument? I do not.
>
> But there are a few differences to how he would have played compared
> to a slam match.
>
> First of all, his attacking game would be varied more with some good
> solid, defensive efforts and rallies from *behind* the baseline. Many
> points Fed lost yesterday he was in no mans land in the middle of the
> court. Murray could simply put a defensive shot deep and force an
> error from Fed.
>
> Secondly, yes Federer definitely wanted to win. But he didn't want to
> give his all for and extended period. This may be the downside of his
> big ego (which was displayed beautifully yesterday). It can also turn
> out to be the smartest thing to do. Since - even though both are good
> in strategics and tactics - IMO Federer is the strategist, Murray the
> tactician.
>
> Also, the best of 3 matches against Murray are more difficult for
> Federer because he knows that in order to beat Murray he has to be the
> more aggressive player between the two. Making him somewhat tentative
> in having to go for big shots without having much of a rhythm, and
> understanding that by missing he can lose quickly.
>
> I don't think we'll see Federer showing so much frustration in slam
> play. He'll control his ego a little better and be more balanced
> mentally, ready for a difficult match. Shrugging off any errors much
> easier. Basically, in the slams there's less to think about and more
> to play for. He will also have a few more matches to tune his game and
> a days rest in between.



Yes, defensible analysis.



 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 22:35:32
From: Patrick Kehoe
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 8:13=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 10 Jan., 09:27, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 10:56=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 10 Jan., 04:46, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 10:20=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>
> > > > > On 10 Jan., 04:16, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lo=
t of
> > > > > > > > double-faults.
>
> > > > > > > What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or th=
ree tops
> > > > > > > for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually =
come at
> > > > > > > awkward moments.
>
> > > > > > > He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but bec=
ause he
> > > > > > > got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
>
> > > > > > Why did he get into lengthy rallies on his own service games?
>
> > > > > I think credit goes to Murray. Most of the times, he made great
> > > > > returns and got the rally going. Murray is a good returner. Of co=
urse,
> > > > > after today's match he seems to be a good server as well.
>
> > > > But if Federer serves properly, then Murray shouldn't get that many
> > > > chances on returns. Granted, the court today looked fairly slow, bu=
t
> > > > the same thing happens on faster surfaces.
>
> > > Which same thing? What "proper serving" are you talking about? Federe=
r
> > > made quite a number of aces today. 6-7 I think? That's more or less
> > > the average number from him. He didn't serve below 50% or anything
> > > like that. It was roundabout 60% I think, but don't recall now. There
> > > were probably a coupla double faults too many. And I thought Murray
> > > made good returns there.
>
> > Just watched Safin lose to Hrbaty in Hopman Cup - 7-6 in third. 20
> > aces from Safin plus a lot of unreturnables (ok, he had more service
> > games). If Federer had served those numbers he would have won today.
>
> > 7 aces is no good anymore - he can't beat these guys solely from the
> > baseline without help from his serve. First serve percentages aren't
> > really meaningful if the serve is going straight into the returner's
> > hitting zone.
>
> You make it seem like Federer was horrible with his serve, serving
> directly into Murray's hitting zone. That wasn't the case. It was a
> mixed bag. He hit some aces, he served up some easy ones for Murray to
> pounce on, etc. His service was the worst in the second set, where he
> had some double faults and first serve % issues.
>
> But look, Federer was only narrowly winning three setters against
> players like Ljubicic in Dubai back in 2005, during his peak prime.
> This time he is older, he has lost a step, and he lost to a young,
> eager Murray. He will be losing more and more, not less and less. His
> priorities are different now.
>
>
>
> > > > Federer's tactic of not serving full out in matches causes him to g=
et
> > > > into trouble, IMO.
>
> > > I didn't get the impression that Federer wasn't serving full out. It
> > > looked like a much more intense and regular serving pattern than the
> > > Abu Dhabi exhibition at least. And how can you tell he is not serving
> > > full out? He always looks relaxed and smooth with his serving motion.
> > > There is no jerk or extra effort to generate power.


++ Fed has had an amazing run... one of these times he's going to get
nipped in a slam third round match or a quarter... though, with his
fitness and skills still so keen it's going to take some doing... what
takes it out of players is the mental resolve needed to beat him over
5 sets... only Rafa has the formula at the ready, so far...
Would be nice to see Fed and Rafa meet in a hardcourt slam OR Murray
and Joker... that would be fun... still... the prospect of seeing Fed
move to 14 this season is very compelling for those of us who love the
history of sports...

P


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 21:34:48
From: Carey
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation


TT wrote:
> andrew.reys@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 9, 12:21 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >> jdeluise wrote:
> >>> On 9-Jan-2009, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
> >>>> a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.
> >>> At first glance I thought you wrote arancione and I thought you had lost
> >>> your mind!
> >> I think Calhoun would be better.
> >>
> >
> > You think Federer will know what the hell he's saying about any better
> > than we do? ;-)
>
> Bitch that Calhoun bring some apeshit skullfuck attitude.

Not bad, not bad.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 20:13:24
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 09:27, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 10:56=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 04:46, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 10:20=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 10 Jan., 04:16, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot =
of
> > > > > > > double-faults.
>
> > > > > > What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or thre=
e tops
> > > > > > for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually co=
me at
> > > > > > awkward moments.
>
> > > > > > He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but becau=
se he
> > > > > > got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
>
> > > > > Why did he get into lengthy rallies on his own service games?
>
> > > > I think credit goes to Murray. Most of the times, he made great
> > > > returns and got the rally going. Murray is a good returner. Of cour=
se,
> > > > after today's match he seems to be a good server as well.
>
> > > But if Federer serves properly, then Murray shouldn't get that many
> > > chances on returns. Granted, the court today looked fairly slow, but
> > > the same thing happens on faster surfaces.
>
> > Which same thing? What "proper serving" are you talking about? Federer
> > made quite a number of aces today. 6-7 I think? That's more or less
> > the average number from him. He didn't serve below 50% or anything
> > like that. It was roundabout 60% I think, but don't recall now. There
> > were probably a coupla double faults too many. And I thought Murray
> > made good returns there.
>
> Just watched Safin lose to Hrbaty in Hopman Cup - 7-6 in third. 20
> aces from Safin plus a lot of unreturnables (ok, he had more service
> games). If Federer had served those numbers he would have won today.
>
> 7 aces is no good anymore - he can't beat these guys solely from the
> baseline without help from his serve. First serve percentages aren't
> really meaningful if the serve is going straight into the returner's
> hitting zone.
>

You make it seem like Federer was horrible with his serve, serving
directly into Murray's hitting zone. That wasn't the case. It was a
mixed bag. He hit some aces, he served up some easy ones for Murray to
pounce on, etc. His service was the worst in the second set, where he
had some double faults and first serve % issues.

But look, Federer was only narrowly winning three setters against
players like Ljubicic in Dubai back in 2005, during his peak prime.
This time he is older, he has lost a step, and he lost to a young,
eager Murray. He will be losing more and more, not less and less. His
priorities are different now.

>
> > > Federer's tactic of not serving full out in matches causes him to get
> > > into trouble, IMO.
>
> > I didn't get the impression that Federer wasn't serving full out. It
> > looked like a much more intense and regular serving pattern than the
> > Abu Dhabi exhibition at least. And how can you tell he is not serving
> > full out? He always looks relaxed and smooth with his serving motion.
> > There is no jerk or extra effort to generate power.
>
> He served harder than in Abu Dhabi, certainly, but it didn't look like
> full power to me.

It looked normal to me. How did he make those aces? Just got lucky?


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 19:27:43
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 10:56=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 10 Jan., 04:46, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 10:20=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 10 Jan., 04:16, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> > > > > > double-faults.
>
> > > > > What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or three =
tops
> > > > > for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually come=
at
> > > > > awkward moments.
>
> > > > > He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but because=
he
> > > > > got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
>
> > > > Why did he get into lengthy rallies on his own service games?
>
> > > I think credit goes to Murray. Most of the times, he made great
> > > returns and got the rally going. Murray is a good returner. Of course=
,
> > > after today's match he seems to be a good server as well.
>
> > But if Federer serves properly, then Murray shouldn't get that many
> > chances on returns. Granted, the court today looked fairly slow, but
> > the same thing happens on faster surfaces.
>
> Which same thing? What "proper serving" are you talking about? Federer
> made quite a number of aces today. 6-7 I think? That's more or less
> the average number from him. He didn't serve below 50% or anything
> like that. It was roundabout 60% I think, but don't recall now. There
> were probably a coupla double faults too many. And I thought Murray
> made good returns there.

Just watched Safin lose to Hrbaty in Hopman Cup - 7-6 in third. 20
aces from Safin plus a lot of unreturnables (ok, he had more service
games). If Federer had served those numbers he would have won today.

7 aces is no good anymore - he can't beat these guys solely from the
baseline without help from his serve. First serve percentages aren't
really meaningful if the serve is going straight into the returner's
hitting zone.

>
> > Federer's tactic of not serving full out in matches causes him to get
> > into trouble, IMO.
>
> I didn't get the impression that Federer wasn't serving full out. It
> looked like a much more intense and regular serving pattern than the
> Abu Dhabi exhibition at least. And how can you tell he is not serving
> full out? He always looks relaxed and smooth with his serving motion.
> There is no jerk or extra effort to generate power.

He served harder than in Abu Dhabi, certainly, but it didn't look like
full power to me. He does look relaxed but he obviously has to swing
faster to get extra power, otherwise how does he get the ball to go
faster?


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 17:44:57
From: andrew.reys@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 12:21 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> jdeluise wrote:
> > On 9-Jan-2009, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
> >> a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.
>
> > At first glance I thought you wrote arancione and I thought you had lost
> > your mind!
>
> I think Calhoun would be better.
>

You think Federer will know what the hell he's saying about any better
than we do? ;-)


  
Date: 10 Jan 2009 03:57:43
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
andrew.reys@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 12:21 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>> jdeluise wrote:
>>> On 9-Jan-2009, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
>>>> a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.
>>> At first glance I thought you wrote arancione and I thought you had lost
>>> your mind!
>> I think Calhoun would be better.
>>
>
> You think Federer will know what the hell he's saying about any better
> than we do? ;-)

Bitch that Calhoun bring some apeshit skullfuck attitude.


   
Date: 10 Jan 2009 16:22:43
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:57:43 +0200, TT <gold@Olympics.org > wrote:

>andrew.reys@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Jan 9, 12:21 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>> jdeluise wrote:
>>>> On 9-Jan-2009, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
>>>>> a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.
>>>> At first glance I thought you wrote arancione and I thought you had lost
>>>> your mind!
>>> I think Calhoun would be better.
>>>
>>
>> You think Federer will know what the hell he's saying about any better
>> than we do? ;-)
>
>Bitch that Calhoun bring some apeshit skullfuck attitude.

Good try, but takes a little learning.


   
Date: 10 Jan 2009 03:58:20
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
TT wrote:
> andrew.reys@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Jan 9, 12:21 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>> jdeluise wrote:
>>>> On 9-Jan-2009, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
>>>>> a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.
>>>> At first glance I thought you wrote arancione and I thought you had
>>>> lost
>>>> your mind!
>>> I think Calhoun would be better.
>>>
>>
>> You think Federer will know what the hell he's saying about any better
>> than we do? ;-)
>
> Bitch that Calhoun bring some apeshit skullfuck attitude.

I guess that post needs a smiley...
:)

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 15:10:20
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 05:06, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On =A09-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 04:46, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Jan 9, 10:20=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 10 Jan., 04:16, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot =
of
> > > > > > > double-faults.
>
> > > > > > What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or thre=
e
> > > > > >tops
> > > > > > for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually co=
me
> > > > > >at
> > > > > > awkward moments.
>
> > > > > > He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but becau=
se
> > > > > >he
> > > > > > got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
>
> > > > > Why did he get into lengthy rallies on his own service games?
>
> > > > I think credit goes to Murray. Most of the times, he made great
> > > > returns and got the rally going. Murray is a good returner. Of cour=
se,
> > > > after today's match he seems to be a good server as well.
>
> > > But if Federer serves properly, then Murray shouldn't get that many
> > > chances on returns. Granted, the court today looked fairly slow, but
> > > the same thing happens on faster surfaces.
>
> > Which same thing? What "proper serving" are you talking about? Federer
> > made quite a number of aces today. 6-7 I think? That's more or less
> > the average number from him. He didn't serve below 50% or anything
> > like that. It was roundabout 60% I think, but don't recall now. There
> > were probably a coupla double faults too many. And I thought Murray
> > made good returns there.
>
> Federer
> Set 1 - 66% first serve percentage (71% won) 70% total service won
> percentage
> Set 2 - 48% first serve percentage (70% won) 52% total service won
> percentage
> Set 3 - 76% first server percentage (63% won) 57% total service won
> percentage
>
> Murray
> Set 1 - 63% first serve percentage (92% won) 75% total service won
> percentage
> Set 2 - 74% first serve percentage (82% won) 74% total service won
> percentage
> Set 3 - 63% first serve percentage (80% won) 71% total service won
> percentage
>
> He probably could have won the match in two had his serve not sunk so bad=
ly
> in the 2nd set.

Maybe. But I think we are really over analyzing this match. It's Doha.
It's not even a Masters.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 15:08:09
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 04:51, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 10:44=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 04:27, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > Federer makes unforced errors because Murray draws him into playi=
ng a
> > > > > type of game which inevitably leads to them. Murray settles into =
a
> > > > > steady, error-free game, letting Federer get into a one-pace base=
line
> > > > > game. Murray makes very few UEs in this situation because he's no=
t
> > > > > going for too much and he knows Federer will break down eventuall=
y.
>
> > > > How did that work in USO?
>
> > > Because Federer served well, was aggressive off the ground (and his
> > > shots were on), and attacked Murray's second serves with chipping and
> > > charging plus running around his backhand to hit big forehands which
> > > put Murray under pressure. Plus Murray did not play as well in that
> > > match as he has done since.
>
> > > > > Federer has to avoid getting dragged into this situation - on his
> > > > > serve he needs free points to break Murray's rhythm, that means b=
ig
> > > > > serving. He needs to attack the net on the right shots, not comin=
g in
> > > > > with power to Murray's backhand, his better side.
>
> > > > I am sure he will play differently in AO.
>
> > > Well, maybe.
>
> > He will have to if he wants to win. And I don't think he wants to
> > lose.
>
> > > > > Chipping and
> > > > > charging on Murray's second serve is a good tactic, yet he used i=
t
> > > > > only once today I think.
>
> > > > That's partly because Murray's first serve percentage got better an=
d
> > > > better as the match progressed.
>
> > > He must have hit some second serves - if Federer was playing this as =
a
> > > tune-up he should have been trying this for the practice.
>
> > You are wasting your coaching talent. Spruce up that resume and send
> > it to Fed. :)
>
> I'm not a coach but some things are obvious. Fed was chipping and
> charging like mad in Abu Dhabi - fair enough as it wasn't a serious
> match. If he was using today as practice then I would have thought he
> would have done a lot more of the same.
>

Federer tried to come in today but got burned most of the time. Some
of those were Federer's own fault, as we all know by now. Federer
isn't exactly a good chip-and-charger. Many times in the past, he came
in behind balls when he shouldn't have been. And the same thing
happened today a few times.

But you have to take into account the passing abilities of Murray (and
other top players). Even when Federer came behind a decent approach
shot, if the approach shot was placed in the corner and was inviting
Murray go make angled winners, Murray was on to it and he was hitting
those shots really well. There is no getting around the fact that chip-
and-charging is a dangerous option in the current era, even if your
approach shot is good. You chip to Murray's bh corner and he runs and
bends down and just scoops the ball with his wrists and guides it past
you (Rafa does the left-hand version of the same thing). You stand
there like a duck.

Geometrically speaking the best approach shot seems to be when you hit
it not left or right, but along the middle at Murray's feet and then
he has no angle to work it. Federer tried that once I think and jammed
Murray, but Murray made a great lob and won the point. May be Federer
should have done that a bit more and tested Murray out a little.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:56:07
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 04:46, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 10:20=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 04:16, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> > > > > double-faults.
>
> > > > What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or three to=
ps
> > > > for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually come a=
t
> > > > awkward moments.
>
> > > > He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but because h=
e
> > > > got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
>
> > > Why did he get into lengthy rallies on his own service games?
>
> > I think credit goes to Murray. Most of the times, he made great
> > returns and got the rally going. Murray is a good returner. Of course,
> > after today's match he seems to be a good server as well.
>
> But if Federer serves properly, then Murray shouldn't get that many
> chances on returns. Granted, the court today looked fairly slow, but
> the same thing happens on faster surfaces.
>

Which same thing? What "proper serving" are you talking about? Federer
made quite a number of aces today. 6-7 I think? That's more or less
the average number from him. He didn't serve below 50% or anything
like that. It was roundabout 60% I think, but don't recall now. There
were probably a coupla double faults too many. And I thought Murray
made good returns there.

> Federer's tactic of not serving full out in matches causes him to get
> into trouble, IMO.

I didn't get the impression that Federer wasn't serving full out. It
looked like a much more intense and regular serving pattern than the
Abu Dhabi exhibition at least. And how can you tell he is not serving
full out? He always looks relaxed and smooth with his serving motion.
There is no jerk or extra effort to generate power.


  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 23:06:17
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zaheen@gmail.com > wrote:

> On 10 Jan., 04:46, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 9, 10:20 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 10 Jan., 04:16, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > > > > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> > > > > > double-faults.
> >
> > > > > What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or three
> > > > >tops
> > > > > for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually come
> > > > >at
> > > > > awkward moments.
> >
> > > > > He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but because
> > > > >he
> > > > > got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
> >
> > > > Why did he get into lengthy rallies on his own service games?
> >
> > > I think credit goes to Murray. Most of the times, he made great
> > > returns and got the rally going. Murray is a good returner. Of course,
> > > after today's match he seems to be a good server as well.
> >
> > But if Federer serves properly, then Murray shouldn't get that many
> > chances on returns. Granted, the court today looked fairly slow, but
> > the same thing happens on faster surfaces.
> >
>
> Which same thing? What "proper serving" are you talking about? Federer
> made quite a number of aces today. 6-7 I think? That's more or less
> the average number from him. He didn't serve below 50% or anything
> like that. It was roundabout 60% I think, but don't recall now. There
> were probably a coupla double faults too many. And I thought Murray
> made good returns there.

Federer
Set 1 - 66% first serve percentage (71% won) 70% total service won
percentage
Set 2 - 48% first serve percentage (70% won) 52% total service won
percentage
Set 3 - 76% first server percentage (63% won) 57% total service won
percentage

Murray
Set 1 - 63% first serve percentage (92% won) 75% total service won
percentage
Set 2 - 74% first serve percentage (82% won) 74% total service won
percentage
Set 3 - 63% first serve percentage (80% won) 71% total service won
percentage


He probably could have won the match in two had his serve not sunk so badly
in the 2nd set.


   
Date: 10 Jan 2009 01:37:48
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
jdeluise wrote:
>
> Federer
> Set 1 - 66% first serve percentage (71% won) 70% total service won
> percentage
> Set 2 - 48% first serve percentage (70% won) 52% total service won
> percentage
> Set 3 - 76% first server percentage (63% won) 57% total service won
> percentage

JD also wrote:
" He probably could have won the match in two had his serve not sunk so
badly in the 2nd set."

*

More likely it would have been closer in the 2nd. First set was no piece
of cake either for Roger.

Also this statistic tells us that Federer didn't get enough first serves
in...in the 2nd set.
And he compensated by taking pace off in the third...which actually lead
to slightly better service points won percentage.


    
Date: 10 Jan 2009 00:17:12
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, TT <gold@Olympics.org > wrote:

> jdeluise wrote:
> >
> > Federer
> > Set 1 - 66% first serve percentage (71% won) 70% total service won
> > percentage
> > Set 2 - 48% first serve percentage (70% won) 52% total service won
> > percentage
> > Set 3 - 76% first server percentage (63% won) 57% total service won
> > percentage
>
> JD also wrote:
> " He probably could have won the match in two had his serve not sunk so
> badly in the 2nd set."
>
> *
>
> More likely it would have been closer in the 2nd. First set was no piece
> of cake either for Roger.
>
> Also this statistic tells us that Federer didn't get enough first serves
> in...in the 2nd set.
> And he compensated by taking pace off in the third...which actually lead
> to slightly better service points won percentage.

I think he would have won it had he served better and had broken Murray when
he had a triple break point in the second. But he didn't so no excuses.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:51:42
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 10:44=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 10 Jan., 04:27, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > Federer makes unforced errors because Murray draws him into playing=
a
> > > > type of game which inevitably leads to them. Murray settles into a
> > > > steady, error-free game, letting Federer get into a one-pace baseli=
ne
> > > > game. Murray makes very few UEs in this situation because he's not
> > > > going for too much and he knows Federer will break down eventually.
>
> > > How did that work in USO?
>
> > Because Federer served well, was aggressive off the ground (and his
> > shots were on), and attacked Murray's second serves with chipping and
> > charging plus running around his backhand to hit big forehands which
> > put Murray under pressure. Plus Murray did not play as well in that
> > match as he has done since.
>
> > > > Federer has to avoid getting dragged into this situation - on his
> > > > serve he needs free points to break Murray's rhythm, that means big
> > > > serving. He needs to attack the net on the right shots, not coming =
in
> > > > with power to Murray's backhand, his better side.
>
> > > I am sure he will play differently in AO.
>
> > Well, maybe.
>
> He will have to if he wants to win. And I don't think he wants to
> lose.
>
> > > > Chipping and
> > > > charging on Murray's second serve is a good tactic, yet he used it
> > > > only once today I think.
>
> > > That's partly because Murray's first serve percentage got better and
> > > better as the match progressed.
>
> > He must have hit some second serves - if Federer was playing this as a
> > tune-up he should have been trying this for the practice.
>
> You are wasting your coaching talent. Spruce up that resume and send
> it to Fed. :)

I'm not a coach but some things are obvious. Fed was chipping and
charging like mad in Abu Dhabi - fair enough as it wasn't a serious
match. If he was using today as practice then I would have thought he
would have done a lot more of the same.

>
> > > > He should not kick his second serve into
> > > > Murray's backhand all the time as Murray is very dangerous with tha=
t
> > > > shot. Most second serves should slice to Murray's forehand.
>
> > > Easy to say.
>
> > Should be easy to do for the world #2
>
> It's not a slam, and he has already won 13 of them. May be he is
> taking things easy.

Maybe

>
> > > > Murray's one weakness is his lack of a great DTL forehand - he rare=
ly
> > > > takes a short forehand flat down the line due to the way he hits
> > > > slightly across his forehand.
> > > > Federer should concentrate on hitting
> > > > deep to Murray's forehand and working the angles to open up the cou=
rt.
> > > > Hitting hard and flat to Murray's backhand is a bad strategy as Mur=
ray
> > > > is equally dangerous going flat crosscourt or DTL with the backhand=
.
>
> > > I am sure Federer knows all this.
>
> > Well, why doesn't he play as if he does?
>
> Saving it for the slams?
>
> > Fair enough if he's saving it all for slam matches, but who knows?
>
> I think he just might know better than you. But let's wait and see. If
> Federer plays the same way in AO, then we will definitely know.

Yep


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:46:01
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 10:20=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 10 Jan., 04:16, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> > > > double-faults.
>
> > > What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or three tops
> > > for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually come at
> > > awkward moments.
>
> > > He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but because he
> > > got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
>
> > Why did he get into lengthy rallies on his own service games?
>
> I think credit goes to Murray. Most of the times, he made great
> returns and got the rally going. Murray is a good returner. Of course,
> after today's match he seems to be a good server as well.

But if Federer serves properly, then Murray shouldn't get that many
chances on returns. Granted, the court today looked fairly slow, but
the same thing happens on faster surfaces.

Federer's tactic of not serving full out in matches causes him to get
into trouble, IMO.



 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:44:12
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 04:27, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > Federer makes unforced errors because Murray draws him into playing a
> > > type of game which inevitably leads to them. Murray settles into a
> > > steady, error-free game, letting Federer get into a one-pace baseline
> > > game. Murray makes very few UEs in this situation because he's not
> > > going for too much and he knows Federer will break down eventually.
>
> > How did that work in USO?
>
> Because Federer served well, was aggressive off the ground (and his
> shots were on), and attacked Murray's second serves with chipping and
> charging plus running around his backhand to hit big forehands which
> put Murray under pressure. Plus Murray did not play as well in that
> match as he has done since.
>
>
>
> > > Federer has to avoid getting dragged into this situation - on his
> > > serve he needs free points to break Murray's rhythm, that means big
> > > serving. He needs to attack the net on the right shots, not coming in
> > > with power to Murray's backhand, his better side.
>
> > I am sure he will play differently in AO.
>
> Well, maybe.
>

He will have to if he wants to win. And I don't think he wants to
lose.

> > > Chipping and
> > > charging on Murray's second serve is a good tactic, yet he used it
> > > only once today I think.
>
> > That's partly because Murray's first serve percentage got better and
> > better as the match progressed.
>
> He must have hit some second serves - if Federer was playing this as a
> tune-up he should have been trying this for the practice.
>

You are wasting your coaching talent. Spruce up that resume and send
it to Fed. :)

> > > He should not kick his second serve into
> > > Murray's backhand all the time as Murray is very dangerous with that
> > > shot. Most second serves should slice to Murray's forehand.
>
> > Easy to say.
>
> Should be easy to do for the world #2
>

It's not a slam, and he has already won 13 of them. May be he is
taking things easy.

> > > Murray's one weakness is his lack of a great DTL forehand - he rarely
> > > takes a short forehand flat down the line due to the way he hits
> > > slightly across his forehand.
> > > Federer should concentrate on hitting
> > > deep to Murray's forehand and working the angles to open up the court.
> > > Hitting hard and flat to Murray's backhand is a bad strategy as Murray
> > > is equally dangerous going flat crosscourt or DTL with the backhand.
>
> > I am sure Federer knows all this.
>
> Well, why doesn't he play as if he does?
>

Saving it for the slams?

> Fair enough if he's saving it all for slam matches, but who knows?

I think he just might know better than you. But let's wait and see. If
Federer plays the same way in AO, then we will definitely know.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:40:55
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 04:29, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On =A09-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, they replayed the point. I thought you suggested Federer won the
> > point unfairly or something.
>
> > How do you know Murray would have won the point if the out call wasn't
> > made. That happened in the middle of a rally. Murray's shot wasn't
> > going for a winner. Federer was on it.
>
> Clearly I might have missed something but it felt like Murray was in cont=
rol
> of the point.
>

He wasn't. It was a testy rally. Murray looked frustrated, but that
doesn't mean he was winning the point. It was in the middle of a
evenly-keeled rally.

>
> > I wouldn't call this a bad call. These things happen and Federer got a
> > bit lucky there.
>
> What would you call it if not a bad call?
>

Almost normal transactions. Linesman makes rare error (although that
same linesman made a few more errors), Murray gets to challenge and it
holds, so they replay the point. That's entirely within the system.

>
>
> > What if Federer double faulted on that replay? Why aren't you talking
> > about that? I thought Federer was serving really badly? How did he
> > promptly win on a service winner? :)
>
> I didn't say he was serving badly on every serve. =A0But in general yes h=
e
> was, and the statistics should tell you something about that.

I watched the match. Federer was not serving great, granted. But serve
is not Federer's main thing. Federer's main thing is his versatility,
as he himself has mentioned many times before. If his service fails,
he usually picks it up in other departments, like baseline, defense,
returns, etc. The fact is Federer's serve wasn't horrible or anything
like that. But his unforced errors during the rallies cost him dearly.

It was a mixed bag. Federer must have felt good about his game in the
first set, especially towards the end of that set. But his performance
in the last two sets was subpar. Murray also started serving really
big in the second set and onwards and Federer seemed to have no good
answer to that.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:40:26
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 10:35=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>> Federer makes unforced errors because Murray draws him into playing a
> >>> type of game which inevitably leads to them. Murray settles into a
> >>> steady, error-free game, letting Federer get into a one-pace baseline
> >>> game. Murray makes very few UEs in this situation because he's not
> >>> going for too much and he knows Federer will break down eventually.
> >> How did that work in USO?
>
> > Because Federer served well, was aggressive off the ground (and his
> > shots were on), and attacked Murray's second serves with chipping and
> > charging plus running around his backhand to hit big forehands which
> > put Murray under pressure. Plus Murray did not play as well in that
> > match as he has done since.
>
> >>> Federer has to avoid getting dragged into this situation - on his
> >>> serve he needs free points to break Murray's rhythm, that means big
> >>> serving. He needs to attack the net on the right shots, not coming in
> >>> with power to Murray's backhand, his better side.
> >> I am sure he will play differently in AO.
>
> > Well, maybe.
>
> >>> Chipping and
> >>> charging on Murray's second serve is a good tactic, yet he used it
> >>> only once today I think.
> >> That's partly because Murray's first serve percentage got better and
> >> better as the match progressed.
>
> > He must have hit some second serves - if Federer was playing this as a
> > tune-up he should have been trying this for the practice.
>
> >>> He should not kick his second serve into
> >>> Murray's backhand all the time as Murray is very dangerous with that
> >>> shot. Most second serves should slice to Murray's forehand.
> >> Easy to say.
>
> > Should be easy to do for the world #2
>
> >>> Murray's one weakness is his lack of a great DTL forehand - he rarely
> >>> takes a short forehand flat down the line due to the way he hits
> >>> slightly across his forehand.
> >>> Federer should concentrate on hitting
> >>> deep to Murray's forehand and working the angles to open up the court=
.
> >>> Hitting hard and flat to Murray's backhand is a bad strategy as Murra=
y
> >>> is equally dangerous going flat crosscourt or DTL with the backhand.
> >> I am sure Federer knows all this.
>
> > Well, why doesn't he play as if he does?
>
> > Fair enough if he's saving it all for slam matches, but who knows?
>
> Looking at Mirka's worried face Federer didn't save anything. And one
> doesn't want to give more confidence to your main rivals.
>
> Isn't that kind of talk same as Whisper's "wasn't arsed"...do you guys
> agree with Whisper and "Sampras wasn't arsed" -argument? I do not.

I think he may be holding back on the serves, but that's about it.
It's risky to assume you can just suddenly pull out the big serves
when the slams come around.

Sampras himself confirmed that he wasn't arsed about non-slams from
1999 onwards (once he clinched the 6th YE #1). I guess that means he
was arsed before then.





 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:27:33
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
> > Federer makes unforced errors because Murray draws him into playing a
> > type of game which inevitably leads to them. Murray settles into a
> > steady, error-free game, letting Federer get into a one-pace baseline
> > game. Murray makes very few UEs in this situation because he's not
> > going for too much and he knows Federer will break down eventually.
>
> How did that work in USO?

Because Federer served well, was aggressive off the ground (and his
shots were on), and attacked Murray's second serves with chipping and
charging plus running around his backhand to hit big forehands which
put Murray under pressure. Plus Murray did not play as well in that
match as he has done since.

>
> > Federer has to avoid getting dragged into this situation - on his
> > serve he needs free points to break Murray's rhythm, that means big
> > serving. He needs to attack the net on the right shots, not coming in
> > with power to Murray's backhand, his better side.
>
> I am sure he will play differently in AO.
>

Well, maybe.

> > Chipping and
> > charging on Murray's second serve is a good tactic, yet he used it
> > only once today I think.
>
> That's partly because Murray's first serve percentage got better and
> better as the match progressed.
>

He must have hit some second serves - if Federer was playing this as a
tune-up he should have been trying this for the practice.

> > He should not kick his second serve into
> > Murray's backhand all the time as Murray is very dangerous with that
> > shot. Most second serves should slice to Murray's forehand.
>
> Easy to say.
>

Should be easy to do for the world #2

> > Murray's one weakness is his lack of a great DTL forehand - he rarely
> > takes a short forehand flat down the line due to the way he hits
> > slightly across his forehand.
> > Federer should concentrate on hitting
> > deep to Murray's forehand and working the angles to open up the court.
> > Hitting hard and flat to Murray's backhand is a bad strategy as Murray
> > is equally dangerous going flat crosscourt or DTL with the backhand.
>
> I am sure Federer knows all this.

Well, why doesn't he play as if he does?

Fair enough if he's saving it all for slam matches, but who knows?



  
Date: 10 Jan 2009 00:35:06
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Federer makes unforced errors because Murray draws him into playing a
>>> type of game which inevitably leads to them. Murray settles into a
>>> steady, error-free game, letting Federer get into a one-pace baseline
>>> game. Murray makes very few UEs in this situation because he's not
>>> going for too much and he knows Federer will break down eventually.
>> How did that work in USO?
>
> Because Federer served well, was aggressive off the ground (and his
> shots were on), and attacked Murray's second serves with chipping and
> charging plus running around his backhand to hit big forehands which
> put Murray under pressure. Plus Murray did not play as well in that
> match as he has done since.
>
>>> Federer has to avoid getting dragged into this situation - on his
>>> serve he needs free points to break Murray's rhythm, that means big
>>> serving. He needs to attack the net on the right shots, not coming in
>>> with power to Murray's backhand, his better side.
>> I am sure he will play differently in AO.
>>
>
> Well, maybe.
>
>>> Chipping and
>>> charging on Murray's second serve is a good tactic, yet he used it
>>> only once today I think.
>> That's partly because Murray's first serve percentage got better and
>> better as the match progressed.
>>
>
> He must have hit some second serves - if Federer was playing this as a
> tune-up he should have been trying this for the practice.
>
>>> He should not kick his second serve into
>>> Murray's backhand all the time as Murray is very dangerous with that
>>> shot. Most second serves should slice to Murray's forehand.
>> Easy to say.
>>
>
> Should be easy to do for the world #2
>
>>> Murray's one weakness is his lack of a great DTL forehand - he rarely
>>> takes a short forehand flat down the line due to the way he hits
>>> slightly across his forehand.
>>> Federer should concentrate on hitting
>>> deep to Murray's forehand and working the angles to open up the court.
>>> Hitting hard and flat to Murray's backhand is a bad strategy as Murray
>>> is equally dangerous going flat crosscourt or DTL with the backhand.
>> I am sure Federer knows all this.
>
> Well, why doesn't he play as if he does?
>
> Fair enough if he's saving it all for slam matches, but who knows?
>

Looking at Mirka's worried face Federer didn't save anything. And one
doesn't want to give more confidence to your main rivals.

Isn't that kind of talk same as Whisper's "wasn't arsed"...do you guys
agree with Whisper and "Sampras wasn't arsed" -argument? I do not.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:24:01
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 04:16, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On =A09-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 03:58, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On =A09-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 10 Jan., 02:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Jan 9, 8:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>
> > > > > > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow
> > > > > ><Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com"
> > > > > > > ><andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow
> > > > > > > ><Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final
> > > > > >third
> > > > > > > >of his
> > > > > > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > > > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN
> > > > > >commentator?
>
> > > > > > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a
> > > > > >while so
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer
> > > > > >(would
> > > > > > > have been asked by now).
>
> > > > > > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there=
.
>
> > > > > > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > > > > > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but
> > > > > > > Federer
> > > > > > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job
> > > > > >pretty
> > > > > > > difficult.
>
> > > > > > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and ther=
e,
> > > > > > people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> > > > > > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer=
's
> > > > > > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego th=
at
> > > > > >help
> > > > > > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Feder=
er?
> > > > > > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and someho=
w
> > > > > >move
> > > > > > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach ca=
n
> > > > > >do
> > > > > > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.
>
> > > > > Edge out Murray? He lost the last 2 sets 6-2 6-2.
>
> > > > Did you see the match? I did.
>
> > > > > The other games he lost v Murray recently have been much closer i=
n
> > > > > the
> > > > > end.
>
> > > > > There are obvious things which Federer was doing wrong today but =
(a)
> > > > > was he only doing them because it was a tune-up?
>
> > > > I believe yes.
>
> > > Then why so much emotion?
>
> > What emotion? He was angry at himself not making good shots. He always
> > does that. Plus, it was Murray. He would have loved to win this one.
> > But, in the end, I think he felt this was a tuneup, so just gave up in
> > the last few games.
>
> Yeah, I thought you could almost tell by looking at him that he had resig=
ned
> himself to losing after being broken in the 2nd.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > (b) =A0if a coach
> > > > > pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?
>
> > > > Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
> > > > really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline.=
He
> > > > had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
> > > > 1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
> > > > break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
> > > > match changes.
>
> > > My take was that yes he made some unforced errors but his serving was
> > > unforgivable, far too many double faults too. =A0
>
> > My take is opposite. Far too many unforced errors. There were coupla
> > double faults there, but they were not the reason for this loss.
>
> The mental aspect of making many double faults is huge. =A0You shouldn't =
gift
> points away like that if you want to win.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I remember that scenario but
> > > I thought it was the second set (granted I was half asleep watching i=
n
> > > on a
> > > livestream that was like a slide show). =A0Given the number of times
> > > Murray
> > > broke Federer I don't necessarily follow your analysis.
>
> > Well, I was wide awake and Federer played bad in the second half the
> > second set to gift it away. Murray was serving big and Federer
> > couldn't put a dent in it. Federer himself was struggling in the
> > rallies. Maybe he lost motivation or concentration a little and Murray
> > was eager to pounce on it. But really, it looked nothing out of
> > ordinary. We have seen things like this from Federer plenty of times
> > last year.
> > > =A0If anything, I
> > > think that Fed could have very easily lost it in 2 had he not benefit=
ed
> > > from
> > > the bad line call in the tiebreak.
>
> > What bad line call?
>
> How can you not remember that bad line call? =A0Federer hit a shot that w=
as
> called out but was clearly in. =A0Hawkeye confirmed it was in so they had=
to
> replay the point, which Federer promptly won on a service winner. =A0Had =
the
> rally continued uninterrupted Murray probably would have won it
> and would
> have had a crucial mini-break (I don't remember the score but he could ha=
ve
> served out the set).

Yes, they replayed the point. I thought you suggested Federer won the
point unfairly or something.

How do you know Murray would have won the point if the out call wasn't
made. That happened in the middle of a rally. Murray's shot wasn't
going for a winner. Federer was on it.

I wouldn't call this a bad call. These things happen and Federer got a
bit lucky there.

What if Federer double faulted on that replay? Why aren't you talking
about that? I thought Federer was serving really badly? How did he
promptly win on a service winner? :)


  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 22:29:25
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zaheen@gmail.com > wrote:

> Yes, they replayed the point. I thought you suggested Federer won the
> point unfairly or something.
>
> How do you know Murray would have won the point if the out call wasn't
> made. That happened in the middle of a rally. Murray's shot wasn't
> going for a winner. Federer was on it.

Clearly I might have missed something but it felt like Murray was in control
of the point.

>
> I wouldn't call this a bad call. These things happen and Federer got a
> bit lucky there.

What would you call it if not a bad call?

>
> What if Federer double faulted on that replay? Why aren't you talking
> about that? I thought Federer was serving really badly? How did he
> promptly win on a service winner? :)

I didn't say he was serving badly on every serve. But in general yes he
was, and the statistics should tell you something about that.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:20:18
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 04:16, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> > > double-faults.
>
> > What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or three tops
> > for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually come at
> > awkward moments.
>
> > He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but because he
> > got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
>
> Why did he get into lengthy rallies on his own service games?

I think credit goes to Murray. Most of the times, he made great
returns and got the rally going. Murray is a good returner. Of course,
after today's match he seems to be a good server as well.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:18:04
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 04:06, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?
>
> > Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
> > really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline. He
> > had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
> > 1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
> > break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
> > match changes.
>
> That was the second set - Federer only won three more games after
> failing to break.
>

No no. Third set. Murray took an injury timeout after barely holding
that game.

> I don't think that "just made a few too many unforced errors from the
> baseline" is going to cut it. The same thing can be said of any recent
> match v Murray (USO apart), but the next match is just the same.
>

USO apart? That was the most important match. We ARE talking about a
potential Federer-Murray five set showdown at AO at this point, aren't
we?

> Federer makes unforced errors because Murray draws him into playing a
> type of game which inevitably leads to them. Murray settles into a
> steady, error-free game, letting Federer get into a one-pace baseline
> game. Murray makes very few UEs in this situation because he's not
> going for too much and he knows Federer will break down eventually.
>

How did that work in USO?

> Federer has to avoid getting dragged into this situation - on his
> serve he needs free points to break Murray's rhythm, that means big
> serving. He needs to attack the net on the right shots, not coming in
> with power to Murray's backhand, his better side.

I am sure he will play differently in AO.

> Chipping and
> charging on Murray's second serve is a good tactic, yet he used it
> only once today I think.

That's partly because Murray's first serve percentage got better and
better as the match progressed.

> He should not kick his second serve into
> Murray's backhand all the time as Murray is very dangerous with that
> shot. Most second serves should slice to Murray's forehand.
>

Easy to say.

> Murray's one weakness is his lack of a great DTL forehand - he rarely
> takes a short forehand flat down the line due to the way he hits
> slightly across his forehand.
> Federer should concentrate on hitting
> deep to Murray's forehand and working the angles to open up the court.
> Hitting hard and flat to Murray's backhand is a bad strategy as Murray
> is equally dangerous going flat crosscourt or DTL with the backhand.

I am sure Federer knows all this.


  
Date: 10 Jan 2009 03:04:41
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:18:04 -0800 (PST), "arnab.z@gmail"
<arnab.zaheen@gmail.com > wrote:

>On 10 Jan., 04:06, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?
>>
>> > Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
>> > really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline. He
>> > had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
>> > 1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
>> > break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
>> > match changes.
>>
>> That was the second set - Federer only won three more games after
>> failing to break.
>>
>
>No no. Third set. Murray took an injury timeout after barely holding
>that game.

Don't know if that happened in the 3rd set, but exactly that happened
in the 2nd set anyway. 1-1, 0-40 on Murray's serve. Just watched it
and I don't have the 3rd set.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:16:43
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
> > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> > double-faults.
>
> What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or three tops
> for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually come at
> awkward moments.
>
> He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but because he
> got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
>

Why did he get into lengthy rallies on his own service games?




 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:13:56
From: Sao Paulo Swallow
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 2:10=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 10 Jan., 04:00, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On =A09-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He wa=
s
> > > stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
>
> > > I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
> > > serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
> > > That's probably the way he is thinking right now.
>
> > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> > double-faults.
>
> What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or three tops
> for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually come at
> awkward moments.
>
> He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but because he
> got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.
>
> > Murray had the stronger serve today, and it won him the
> > match imo.
>
> It sure won him the majority of his service games, no doubt. But I
> think Federer's huge number of unforced errors was the main reason why
> Murray won. Federer had nearly 40 UEs there. That's just too many.

True. Another stat: first serve percent went from 74 in the first set
to 48 in the second.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:12:31
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 10:00=A0pm, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On =A09-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He was
> > stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
>
> > I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
> > serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
> > That's probably the way he is thinking right now.
>
> No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> double-faults. =A0Murray had the stronger serve today, and it won him the
> match imo.

He had about 4 doubles, but they came at bad times, e.g. 30-30 in a
game to be broken.

Yes, Federer struggled on his serve, for the reasons I mentioned in
other posts.


  
Date: 10 Jan 2009 03:10:41
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:12:31 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Jan 9, 10:00 pm, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On  9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He was
>> > stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
>>
>> > I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
>> > serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
>> > That's probably the way he is thinking right now.
>>
>> No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
>> double-faults.  Murray had the stronger serve today, and it won him the
>> match imo.
>
>He had about 4 doubles, but they came at bad times, e.g. 30-30 in a
>game to be broken.

He had 4 until the 2nd set, don't know if he served any in the 3rd.
One was in the tie-break, when he was mini-break up. One was in the
game when Murray got the first break of the match.


   
Date: 10 Jan 2009 01:13:05
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, Sakari Lund <sakari.lund@welho.com > wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:12:31 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >On Jan 9, 10:00 pm, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On  9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He
> >> > was
> >> > stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
> >>
> >> > I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
> >> > serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
> >> > That's probably the way he is thinking right now.
> >>
> >> No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> >> double-faults.  Murray had the stronger serve today, and it won him the
> >> match imo.
> >
> >He had about 4 doubles, but they came at bad times, e.g. 30-30 in a
> >game to be broken.
>
> He had 4 until the 2nd set, don't know if he served any in the 3rd.
> One was in the tie-break, when he was mini-break up. One was in the
> game when Murray got the first break of the match.

He didn't double-fault in the third set.


  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 22:21:55
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:

> On Jan 9, 10:00 pm, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On  9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He was
> > > stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
> >
> > > I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
> > > serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
> > > That's probably the way he is thinking right now.
> >
> > No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> > double-faults.  Murray had the stronger serve today, and it won him the
> > match imo.
>
> He had about 4 doubles, but they came at bad times, e.g. 30-30 in a
> game to be broken.

Yes, and I think it hurt his confidence on second serves, which if true is
very important.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:10:17
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 04:00, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On =A09-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He was
> > stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
>
> > I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
> > serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
> > That's probably the way he is thinking right now.
>
> No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> double-faults.

What do you mean "a lot" of double faults? Probably two or three tops
for the entire match. And those double faults didn't usually come at
awkward moments.

He was taken to deuce not because of his bad service, but because he
got into lengthy rallies and started making errors.

> Murray had the stronger serve today, and it won him the
> match imo.

It sure won him the majority of his service games, no doubt. But I
think Federer's huge number of unforced errors was the main reason why
Murray won. Federer had nearly 40 UEs there. That's just too many.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:07:09
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 03:59, Jason Catlin <jason-cat...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 9, 4:57=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 02:20, Scott <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 3:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.c=
om >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmai=
l.com >
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yaho=
o.com >
> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final thir=
d of his
> > > > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentat=
or?
>
> > > > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while=
so I
> > > > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (woul=
d
> > > > > have been asked by now).
>
> > > > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > > > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > > > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Fed=
erer
> > > > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pre=
tty
> > > > > difficult.
>
> > > > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > > > people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> > > > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > > > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that h=
elp
> > > > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > > > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow mo=
ve
> > > > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> > > > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.-
>
> > > Roger needs help in concentration. =A0Also, his movement, serving and
> > > volleying need to improve if he's going to win another slam.
>
> > > I remember when Pete was stuck at 13 slams and commentators were
> > > saying he should retire. =A0meanwhile, Roger is still at least the
> > > second best on HC on tour. =A0He could still get lucky at the AO and
> > > have someone like Rafa, Tsonga, Roddick or Djoker take out Murray.
> > > Or, maybe Rog will beat Murray himself there. =A0There's still a chan=
ce
> > > for him to get #14 in a few weeks.
>
> > But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He was
> > stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
>
> > I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
> > serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
> > That's probably the way he is thinking right now.
>
> > BTW, speaking about improvement, commentators mentioned Murray had
> > been watching Federer and Sampras dvds over the off season break to
> > improve his game. He is rotating his torso more when going through his
> > forehand motion. Apparently that produces a harder, faster forehand.-
>
> He seems to have improved his 1st serve % a lot. That used to be a big
> weakness in his game.

Yes, great serving from Murray. Fired a couple of 225+ kmph missiles
there today. Federer needs to sharpen his return game a bit.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:06:58
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
> pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?
>
> Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
> really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline. He
> had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
> 1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
> break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
> match changes.

That was the second set - Federer only won three more games after
failing to break.

I don't think that "just made a few too many unforced errors from the
baseline" is going to cut it. The same thing can be said of any recent
match v Murray (USO apart), but the next match is just the same.

Federer makes unforced errors because Murray draws him into playing a
type of game which inevitably leads to them. Murray settles into a
steady, error-free game, letting Federer get into a one-pace baseline
game. Murray makes very few UEs in this situation because he's not
going for too much and he knows Federer will break down eventually.

Federer has to avoid getting dragged into this situation - on his
serve he needs free points to break Murray's rhythm, that means big
serving. He needs to attack the net on the right shots, not coming in
with power to Murray's backhand, his better side. Chipping and
charging on Murray's second serve is a good tactic, yet he used it
only once today I think. He should not kick his second serve into
Murray's backhand all the time as Murray is very dangerous with that
shot. Most second serves should slice to Murray's forehand.

Murray's one weakness is his lack of a great DTL forehand - he rarely
takes a short forehand flat down the line due to the way he hits
slightly across his forehand. Federer should concentrate on hitting
deep to Murray's forehand and working the angles to open up the court.
Hitting hard and flat to Murray's backhand is a bad strategy as Murray
is equally dangerous going flat crosscourt or DTL with the backhand.






 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 14:05:14
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 03:58, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On =A09-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 02:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Jan 9, 8:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.c=
om >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com"
> > > > > ><andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow
> > > > > ><Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final thir=
d
> > > > > >of his
> > > > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentat=
or?
>
> > > > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while=
so
> > > > > I
> > > > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (woul=
d
> > > > > have been asked by now).
>
> > > > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > > > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > > > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but
> > > > > Federer
> > > > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pre=
tty
> > > > > difficult.
>
> > > > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > > > people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> > > > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > > > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that h=
elp
> > > > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > > > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow mo=
ve
> > > > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> > > > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.
>
> > > Edge out Murray? He lost the last 2 sets 6-2 6-2.
>
> > Did you see the match? I did.
>
> > > The other games he lost v Murray recently have been much closer in th=
e
> > > end.
>
> > > There are obvious things which Federer was doing wrong today but (a)
> > > was he only doing them because it was a tune-up?
>
> > I believe yes.
>
> Then why so much emotion?
>

What emotion? He was angry at himself not making good shots. He always
does that. Plus, it was Murray. He would have loved to win this one.
But, in the end, I think he felt this was a tuneup, so just gave up in
the last few games.

>
> > (b) =A0if a coach
> > > pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?
>
> > Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
> > really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline. He
> > had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
> > 1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
> > break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
> > match changes.
>
> My take was that yes he made some unforced errors but his serving was
> unforgivable, far too many double faults too. =A0

My take is opposite. Far too many unforced errors. There were coupla
double faults there, but they were not the reason for this loss.

> I remember that scenario but
> I thought it was the second set (granted I was half asleep watching in on=
a
> livestream that was like a slide show). =A0Given the number of times Murr=
ay
> broke Federer I don't necessarily follow your analysis.

Well, I was wide awake and Federer played bad in the second half the
second set to gift it away. Murray was serving big and Federer
couldn't put a dent in it. Federer himself was struggling in the
rallies. Maybe he lost motivation or concentration a little and Murray
was eager to pounce on it. But really, it looked nothing out of
ordinary. We have seen things like this from Federer plenty of times
last year.

> =A0If anything, I
> think that Fed could have very easily lost it in 2 had he not benefited f=
rom
> the bad line call in the tiebreak.

What bad line call?


  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 22:16:56
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zaheen@gmail.com > wrote:

> On 10 Jan., 03:58, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On  9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 10 Jan., 02:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Jan 9, 8:14 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > > > > On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow
> > > > ><Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com"
> > > > > > ><andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow
> > > > > > ><Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
> >
> > > > > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final
> > > > >third
> > > > > > >of his
> > > > > > > > > career.
> >
> > > > > > > > Thoughts?
> >
> > > > > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN
> > > > >commentator?
> >
> > > > > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a
> > > > >while so
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer
> > > > >(would
> > > > > > have been asked by now).
> >
> > > > > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
> >
> > > > > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
> >
> > > > > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but
> > > > > > Federer
> > > > > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job
> > > > >pretty
> > > > > > difficult.
> >
> > > > > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > > > > people start talking about potential coaches.
> >
> > > > > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > > > > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that
> > > > >help
> > > > > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > > > > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow
> > > > >move
> > > > > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can
> > > > >do
> > > > > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.
> >
> > > > Edge out Murray? He lost the last 2 sets 6-2 6-2.
> >
> > > Did you see the match? I did.
> >
> > > > The other games he lost v Murray recently have been much closer in
> > > > the
> > > > end.
> >
> > > > There are obvious things which Federer was doing wrong today but (a)
> > > > was he only doing them because it was a tune-up?
> >
> > > I believe yes.
> >
> > Then why so much emotion?
> >
>
> What emotion? He was angry at himself not making good shots. He always
> does that. Plus, it was Murray. He would have loved to win this one.
> But, in the end, I think he felt this was a tuneup, so just gave up in
> the last few games.

Yeah, I thought you could almost tell by looking at him that he had resigned
himself to losing after being broken in the 2nd.

>
> >
> > > (b)  if a coach
> > > > pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?
> >
> > > Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
> > > really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline. He
> > > had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
> > > 1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
> > > break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
> > > match changes.
> >
> > My take was that yes he made some unforced errors but his serving was
> > unforgivable, far too many double faults too.  
>
> My take is opposite. Far too many unforced errors. There were coupla
> double faults there, but they were not the reason for this loss.

The mental aspect of making many double faults is huge. You shouldn't gift
points away like that if you want to win.

>
> > I remember that scenario but
> > I thought it was the second set (granted I was half asleep watching in
> > on a
> > livestream that was like a slide show).  Given the number of times
> > Murray
> > broke Federer I don't necessarily follow your analysis.
>
> Well, I was wide awake and Federer played bad in the second half the
> second set to gift it away. Murray was serving big and Federer
> couldn't put a dent in it. Federer himself was struggling in the
> rallies. Maybe he lost motivation or concentration a little and Murray
> was eager to pounce on it. But really, it looked nothing out of
> ordinary. We have seen things like this from Federer plenty of times
> last year.
> >  If anything, I
> > think that Fed could have very easily lost it in 2 had he not benefited
> > from
> > the bad line call in the tiebreak.
>
> What bad line call?

How can you not remember that bad line call? Federer hit a shot that was
called out but was clearly in. Hawkeye confirmed it was in so they had to
replay the point, which Federer promptly won on a service winner. Had the
rally continued uninterrupted Murray probably would have won it and would
have had a crucial mini-break (I don't remember the score but he could have
served out the set).


   
Date: 10 Jan 2009 00:22:51
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
jdeluise wrote:
> On 9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zaheen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10 Jan., 03:58, "jdeluise" <jdelu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 10 Jan., 02:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 9, 8:14 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow
>>>>>> <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com"
>>>>>>>> <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow
>>>>>>>> <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Any news about that? Or rumor?
>>>>>>>>>> He needs a coach to help him transition into the final
>>>>>> third
>>>>>>>> of his
>>>>>>>>>> career.
>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>> Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN
>>>>>> commentator?
>>>>>>> He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a
>>>>>> while so
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer
>>>>>> (would
>>>>>>> have been asked by now).
>>>>>>> Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>>>>>>> Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>>>>>>> Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but
>>>>>>> Federer
>>>>>>> likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job
>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>> It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
>>>>>> people start talking about potential coaches.
>>>>>> I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
>>>>>> gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that
>>>>>> help
>>>>>> capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
>>>>>> There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow
>>>>>> move
>>>>>> a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> that for him, that's the job of his trainer.
>>>>> Edge out Murray? He lost the last 2 sets 6-2 6-2.
>>>> Did you see the match? I did.
>>>>> The other games he lost v Murray recently have been much closer in
>>>>> the
>>>>> end.
>>>>> There are obvious things which Federer was doing wrong today but (a)
>>>>> was he only doing them because it was a tune-up?
>>>> I believe yes.
>>> Then why so much emotion?
>>>
>> What emotion? He was angry at himself not making good shots. He always
>> does that. Plus, it was Murray. He would have loved to win this one.
>> But, in the end, I think he felt this was a tuneup, so just gave up in
>> the last few games.
>
> Yeah, I thought you could almost tell by looking at him that he had resigned
> himself to losing after being broken in the 2nd.
>
>>>> (b) if a coach
>>>>> pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?
>>>> Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
>>>> really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline. He
>>>> had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
>>>> 1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
>>>> break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
>>>> match changes.
>>> My take was that yes he made some unforced errors but his serving was
>>> unforgivable, far too many double faults too.
>> My take is opposite. Far too many unforced errors. There were coupla
>> double faults there, but they were not the reason for this loss.
>
> The mental aspect of making many double faults is huge. You shouldn't gift
> points away like that if you want to win.
>
>>> I remember that scenario but
>>> I thought it was the second set (granted I was half asleep watching in
>>> on a
>>> livestream that was like a slide show). Given the number of times
>>> Murray
>>> broke Federer I don't necessarily follow your analysis.
>> Well, I was wide awake and Federer played bad in the second half the
>> second set to gift it away. Murray was serving big and Federer
>> couldn't put a dent in it. Federer himself was struggling in the
>> rallies. Maybe he lost motivation or concentration a little and Murray
>> was eager to pounce on it. But really, it looked nothing out of
>> ordinary. We have seen things like this from Federer plenty of times
>> last year.
>>> If anything, I
>>> think that Fed could have very easily lost it in 2 had he not benefited
>>> from
>>> the bad line call in the tiebreak.
>> What bad line call?
>
> How can you not remember that bad line call? Federer hit a shot

Murray hit a shot...
:)

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


    
Date: 09 Jan 2009 22:27:09
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, TT <gold@Olympics.org > wrote:

> Murray hit a shot...
> :)

Yeah, sorry. Like I said it was a choppy stream.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 13:59:48
From: Jason Catlin
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 4:57=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 10 Jan., 02:20, Scott <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 3:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com=
>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.=
com >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.=
com >
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third =
of his
> > > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator=
?
>
> > > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while s=
o I
> > > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > > > have been asked by now).
>
> > > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Feder=
er
> > > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job prett=
y
> > > > difficult.
>
> > > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > > people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> > > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that hel=
p
> > > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> > > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> > > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.-
>
> > Roger needs help in concentration. =A0Also, his movement, serving and
> > volleying need to improve if he's going to win another slam.
>
> > I remember when Pete was stuck at 13 slams and commentators were
> > saying he should retire. =A0meanwhile, Roger is still at least the
> > second best on HC on tour. =A0He could still get lucky at the AO and
> > have someone like Rafa, Tsonga, Roddick or Djoker take out Murray.
> > Or, maybe Rog will beat Murray himself there. =A0There's still a chance
> > for him to get #14 in a few weeks.
>
> But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He was
> stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
>
> I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
> serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
> That's probably the way he is thinking right now.
>
> BTW, speaking about improvement, commentators mentioned Murray had
> been watching Federer and Sampras dvds over the off season break to
> improve his game. He is rotating his torso more when going through his
> forehand motion. Apparently that produces a harder, faster forehand.-

He seems to have improved his 1st serve % a lot. That used to be a big
weakness in his game.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 13:59:28
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 1:45 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 9:43 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 12:07 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > > have been asked by now).
>
> > Like I said, fed has nothing to learn from cahill. With all due
> > respect to agassi, fed is a much greater talent than agassi, and with
> > a much bigger ego. Who else does that remind you of ? aah .... a guy
> > called sampras. And who coached sampras to 7 of his 14 slams ?
> > Annacone.
>
> > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > meaning ?
>
> Meaning that if Federer had wanted to hire Annacone he could have when
> he fired Roche - Annacone is now working for the LTA.
>
> I suspect Federer is also wary of Annacone since he might want to
> avoid aping Sampras's every move during his career ...

When fed fired roche, he was still about 25 1/2 and about a step
faster than he is now. And guys like Murray, Nadal (off clay), and
Djok were not there to pressurize him. That means his game at that
point was good enough, and didn't need any tinkering.

Now, the situation is somewhat changed. He is clearly a step slower
and the challengers are pressing in. He needs slightly bigger weapons,
and he can't rely on his speed as much. So, looking at it that way, he
is better off aping sampras' moves of ending the points sooner, and
taking more risks.


  
Date: 10 Jan 2009 00:17:21
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
Shakes wrote:
> On Jan 9, 1:45 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Jan 9, 9:43 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 9, 12:07 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Any news about that? Or rumor?
>>>>>>> He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
>>>>>>> career.
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>> Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>>>> He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
>>>> don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
>>>> have been asked by now).
>>> Like I said, fed has nothing to learn from cahill. With all due
>>> respect to agassi, fed is a much greater talent than agassi, and with
>>> a much bigger ego. Who else does that remind you of ? aah .... a guy
>>> called sampras. And who coached sampras to 7 of his 14 slams ?
>>> Annacone.
>>>> Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>>> meaning ?
>> Meaning that if Federer had wanted to hire Annacone he could have when
>> he fired Roche - Annacone is now working for the LTA.
>>
>> I suspect Federer is also wary of Annacone since he might want to
>> avoid aping Sampras's every move during his career ...
>
> When fed fired roche, he was still about 25 1/2 and about a step
> faster than he is now. And guys like Murray, Nadal (off clay), and
> Djok were not there to pressurize him. That means his game at that
> point was good enough, and didn't need any tinkering.
>
> Now, the situation is somewhat changed. He is clearly a step slower
> and the challengers are pressing in. He needs slightly bigger weapons,
> and he can't rely on his speed as much. So, looking at it that way, he
> is better off aping sampras' moves of ending the points sooner, and
> taking more risks.

His tactics for the season look to be going up the net more and
returning 2nd serves more aggressively. Seems a good plan to me.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 13:57:01
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 02:20, Scott <scott...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jan 9, 3:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.co=
m >
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.co=
m >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of=
his
> > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so =
I
> > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > > have been asked by now).
>
> > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> > > difficult.
>
> > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
> > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.-
>
> Roger needs help in concentration. =A0Also, his movement, serving and
> volleying need to improve if he's going to win another slam.
>
> I remember when Pete was stuck at 13 slams and commentators were
> saying he should retire. =A0meanwhile, Roger is still at least the
> second best on HC on tour. =A0He could still get lucky at the AO and
> have someone like Rafa, Tsonga, Roddick or Djoker take out Murray.
> Or, maybe Rog will beat Murray himself there. =A0There's still a chance
> for him to get #14 in a few weeks.

But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He was
stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.

I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
That's probably the way he is thinking right now.

BTW, speaking about improvement, commentators mentioned Murray had
been watching Federer and Sampras dvds over the off season break to
improve his game. He is rotating his torso more when going through his
forehand motion. Apparently that produces a harder, faster forehand.


  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 22:00:53
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zaheen@gmail.com > wrote:

>
> But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He was
> stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
>
> I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
> serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
> That's probably the way he is thinking right now.

No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
double-faults. Murray had the stronger serve today, and it won him the
match imo.


   
Date: 10 Jan 2009 00:20:26
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
jdeluise wrote:
> On 9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zaheen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> But Federer is not stuck at 13. He won the last slam, remember? He was
>> stuck at 12 and then broke the deadlock.
>>
>> I don't know if a coach can suddenly improve his concentration. His
>> serving looks fine to me. What matters is whether he peaks at slams.
>> That's probably the way he is thinking right now.
>
> No way, he was being taken to deuce very often and had a lot of
> double-faults. Murray had the stronger serve today, and it won him the
> match imo.

Probably yes. I'd say they were pretty even on all aspects of the game
but Murray returned better.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 13:50:33
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 02:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 8:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.co=
m >
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.co=
m >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of=
his
> > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so =
I
> > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > > have been asked by now).
>
> > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> > > difficult.
>
> > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
> > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.
>
> Edge out Murray? He lost the last 2 sets 6-2 6-2.
>

Did you see the match? I did.

> The other games he lost v Murray recently have been much closer in the
> end.
>
> There are obvious things which Federer was doing wrong today but (a)
> was he only doing them because it was a tune-up?

I believe yes.

(b) =A0if a coach
> pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?

Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline. He
had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
match changes.


  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 21:58:00
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zaheen@gmail.com > wrote:

> On 10 Jan., 02:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 9, 8:14 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > > On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com"
> > > > ><andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow
> > > > ><Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
> >
> > > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third
> > > > >of his
> > > > > > > career.
> >
> > > > > > Thoughts?
> >
> > > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
> >
> > > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so
> > > > I
> > > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > > > have been asked by now).
> >
> > > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
> >
> > > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
> >
> > > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but
> > > > Federer
> > > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> > > > difficult.
> >
> > > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > > people start talking about potential coaches.
> >
> > > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
> > > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> > > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> > > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.
> >
> > Edge out Murray? He lost the last 2 sets 6-2 6-2.
> >
>
> Did you see the match? I did.
>
> > The other games he lost v Murray recently have been much closer in the
> > end.
> >
> > There are obvious things which Federer was doing wrong today but (a)
> > was he only doing them because it was a tune-up?
>
> I believe yes.

Then why so much emotion?

>
> (b)  if a coach
> > pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?
>
> Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
> really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline. He
> had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
> 1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
> break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
> match changes.

My take was that yes he made some unforced errors but his serving was
unforgivable, far too many double faults too. I remember that scenario but
I thought it was the second set (granted I was half asleep watching in on a
livestream that was like a slide show). Given the number of times Murray
broke Federer I don't necessarily follow your analysis. If anything, I
think that Fed could have very easily lost it in 2 had he not benefited from
the bad line call in the tiebreak.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 13:45:48
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 9:43=A0pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 9, 12:07 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of h=
is
> > > > > career.
>
> > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > have been asked by now).
>
> Like I said, fed has nothing to learn from cahill. With all due
> respect to agassi, fed is a much greater talent than agassi, and with
> a much bigger ego. Who else does that remind you of ? aah .... a guy
> called sampras. And who coached sampras to 7 of his 14 slams ?
> Annacone.
>
> > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> meaning ?
>

Meaning that if Federer had wanted to hire Annacone he could have when
he fired Roche - Annacone is now working for the LTA.

I suspect Federer is also wary of Annacone since he might want to
avoid aping Sampras's every move during his career ...






  
Date: 10 Jan 2009 03:11:59
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:45:48 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Jan 9, 9:43 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 9, 12:07 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>>
>> > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
>> > > > > career.
>>
>> > > > Thoughts?
>>
>> > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>>
>> > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
>> > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
>> > have been asked by now).
>>
>> Like I said, fed has nothing to learn from cahill. With all due
>> respect to agassi, fed is a much greater talent than agassi, and with
>> a much bigger ego. Who else does that remind you of ? aah .... a guy
>> called sampras. And who coached sampras to 7 of his 14 slams ?
>> Annacone.
>>
>> > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>>
>> meaning ?
>>
>
>Meaning that if Federer had wanted to hire Annacone he could have when
>he fired Roche - Annacone is now working for the LTA.
>
>I suspect Federer is also wary of Annacone since he might want to
>avoid aping Sampras's every move during his career ...

I think he wants to ape winning #14.



 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 13:45:33
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 12:13 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> On Jan 9, 12:07 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> > > > > career.
>
> > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > have been asked by now).
>
> > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> > difficult.
>
> He needs someone who has been where is he now, either as a > player or a coach or both.

Only 2 guys that I can think of ... sampras and annacone.


> I think he needs advice on the compromises he needs to
> make to extend his career and achieve the few goals he has left.
>
> It's hard to argue with his success, but he's entering a phase of his
> career for which he has no comparable experience.

Once again ... annacone, :-)



 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 13:43:09
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 12:07 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> > > > career.
>
> > > Thoughts?
>
> > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> have been asked by now).


Like I said, fed has nothing to learn from cahill. With all due
respect to agassi, fed is a much greater talent than agassi, and with
a much bigger ego. Who else does that remind you of ? aah .... a guy
called sampras. And who coached sampras to 7 of his 14 slams ?
Annacone.

> Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>

meaning ?

> Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> difficult.

All of these guys are good at the mental aspects of the game. But fed
needs a little technical help as well, mainly with his serve and net
game. The rest of his game is good. Also, his BH is not going to
improve suddenly unless he switches to a 2HBH. So, it's better he
spend time on regaining his serve and net game (ala wim 2003). At
least that is within the realm of reality.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:59:28
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 8:50=A0pm, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay > wrote:
> <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a9d15bc0-de97-4623-b15c-21b5b3309a7f@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 9, 8:20 pm, Scott <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 3:14 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.co=
m >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow
> > > > > > <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third =
of
> > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator=
?
>
> > > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while s=
o I
> > > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > > > have been asked by now).
>
> > > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Feder=
er
> > > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job prett=
y
> > > > difficult.
>
> > > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > > people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> > > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that hel=
p
> > > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> > > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> > > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.-
>
> > Roger needs help in concentration. Also, his movement, serving and
> > volleying need to improve if he's going to win another slam.
>
> > I remember when Pete was stuck at 13 slams and commentators were
> > saying he should retire. meanwhile, Roger is still at least the
> > second best on HC on tour. He could still get lucky at the AO and
> > have someone like Rafa, Tsonga, Roddick or Djoker take out Murray.
> > Or, maybe Rog will beat Murray himself there. There's still a chance
> > for him to get #14 in a few weeks.
>
> >Serving is key - I can't believe Federer would go out in a big slam
> >match and serve like he did today. If he serves well against Murray,
> >he should still be favourite - poor serving has been a common theme in
> >all of his defeats.
>
> you do know this is Murray, who returned Karlovic's serve effortlessly.

Even the aces?



 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:24:08
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 8:20=A0pm, Scott <scott...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jan 9, 3:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.co=
m >
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.co=
m >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of=
his
> > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so =
I
> > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > > have been asked by now).
>
> > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> > > difficult.
>
> > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
> > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.-
>
> Roger needs help in concentration. =A0Also, his movement, serving and
> volleying need to improve if he's going to win another slam.
>
> I remember when Pete was stuck at 13 slams and commentators were
> saying he should retire. =A0meanwhile, Roger is still at least the
> second best on HC on tour. =A0He could still get lucky at the AO and
> have someone like Rafa, Tsonga, Roddick or Djoker take out Murray.
> Or, maybe Rog will beat Murray himself there. =A0There's still a chance
> for him to get #14 in a few weeks.

Serving is key - I can't believe Federer would go out in a big slam
match and serve like he did today. If he serves well against Murray,
he should still be favourite - poor serving has been a common theme in
all of his defeats.



  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 20:50:13
From: Iceberg
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
<gregorawe@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:a9d15bc0-de97-4623-b15c-21b5b3309a7f@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 9, 8:20 pm, Scott <scott...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jan 9, 3:14 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow
> > > > > <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of
> > > > > > his
> > > > > > career.
>
> > > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> > > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > > have been asked by now).
>
> > > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> > > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> > > difficult.
>
> > It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> > people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> > I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> > gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
> > capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> > There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> > a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> > that for him, that's the job of his trainer.-
>
> Roger needs help in concentration. Also, his movement, serving and
> volleying need to improve if he's going to win another slam.
>
> I remember when Pete was stuck at 13 slams and commentators were
> saying he should retire. meanwhile, Roger is still at least the
> second best on HC on tour. He could still get lucky at the AO and
> have someone like Rafa, Tsonga, Roddick or Djoker take out Murray.
> Or, maybe Rog will beat Murray himself there. There's still a chance
> for him to get #14 in a few weeks.
>
>Serving is key - I can't believe Federer would go out in a big slam
>match and serve like he did today. If he serves well against Murray,
>he should still be favourite - poor serving has been a common theme in
>all of his defeats.

you do know this is Murray, who returned Karlovic's serve effortlessly.




 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:20:50
From: Scott
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 3:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of h=
is
> > > > > career.
>
> > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > have been asked by now).
>
> > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> > difficult.
>
> It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
> capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> that for him, that's the job of his trainer.-

Roger needs help in concentration. Also, his movement, serving and
volleying need to improve if he's going to win another slam.

I remember when Pete was stuck at 13 slams and commentators were
saying he should retire. meanwhile, Roger is still at least the
second best on HC on tour. He could still get lucky at the AO and
have someone like Rafa, Tsonga, Roddick or Djoker take out Murray.
Or, maybe Rog will beat Murray himself there. There's still a chance
for him to get #14 in a few weeks.



  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 23:01:10
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
Scott wrote:
> On Jan 9, 3:14 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 9, 7:57 pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Any news about that? Or rumor?
>>>>>> He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
>>>>>> career.
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>>> He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
>>> don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
>>> have been asked by now).
>>> Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>>> Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>>> Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
>>> likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
>>> difficult.
>> It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
>> people start talking about potential coaches.
>>
>> I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
>> gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
>> capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
>> There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
>> a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
>> that for him, that's the job of his trainer.-
>
> Roger needs help in concentration. Also, his movement, serving and
> volleying need to improve if he's going to win another slam.

Last year his serving looked quite poor before Wimbledon...But when
Wimbledon came he magically found his serve and was hitting aces all over.
Also by today's match I'd conclude that Federer would beat Murray at
Wimbledon...Roger was hitting lots of slices when Murray was pressuring
his backhand...yet Murray couldn't do much with those slices, he lost
the advantage right there. On grass it's even more difficult to answer
those slices unless you hit with extreme topspin as...

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:17:58
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 8:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of h=
is
> > > > > career.
>
> > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > have been asked by now).
>
> > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> > difficult.
>
> It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
> capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> that for him, that's the job of his trainer.

Edge out Murray? He lost the last 2 sets 6-2 6-2.

The other games he lost v Murray recently have been much closer in the
end.

There are obvious things which Federer was doing wrong today but (a)
was he only doing them because it was a tune-up? (b) if a coach
pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?





 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:17:55
From: Sao Paulo Swallow
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 12:14=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of h=
is
> > > > > career.
>
> > > > Thoughts?
>
> > > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> > He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> > don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> > have been asked by now).
>
> > Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> > Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> > Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> > likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> > difficult.
>
> It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
> people start talking about potential coaches.
>
> I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
> gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
> capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
> There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
> a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
> that for him, that's the job of his trainer.

I agree that his trainer is key, but there's more to aging as a top
tennis player than physical training, especially for someone like Fed
who is chasing some serious goals, not just trying to extend his
earning power a few extra years.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:14:07
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 02:07, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> > > > career.
>
> > > Thoughts?
>
> > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> have been asked by now).
>
> Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> difficult.

It seems like whenever Federer loses a tournament here and there,
people start talking about potential coaches.

I don't think there's a coach out there that can handle Federer's
gigantic ego (I am talking about it in a good sense; any ego that help
capture 13 slams is good). How would you coach a guy like Federer?
There's very little to improve. If he could defy age and somehow move
a bit better today, he would have edged out Murray. No coach can do
that for him, that's the job of his trainer.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:13:53
From: Sao Paulo Swallow
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 12:07=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> > > > career.
>
> > > Thoughts?
>
> > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
> don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
> have been asked by now).
>
> Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.
>
> Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....
>
> Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
> likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
> difficult.

He needs someone who has been where is he now, either as a player or a
coach or both. I think he needs advice on the compromises he needs to
make to extend his career and achieve the few goals he has left.

It's hard to argue with his success, but he's entering a phase of his
career for which he has no comparable experience.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:08:32
From: Scott
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 3:06=A0pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 9, 11:57 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> > > > career.
>
> > > Thoughts?
>
> > Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?
>
> People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
> a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.
>
> Fed is fundamentally a baseline player with enough variety, and he
> won't have much to gain from Cahill, repertoire-wise.

i've seen Federer say publicly that he doesn't want Cahill.

I agree about Annacone, though. it could be a good fit.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:07:08
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 7:57=A0pm, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> > > career.
>
> > Thoughts?
>
> Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?

He's still commentating. He has been free from Agassi for a while so I
don't think there is any chance of him working with Federer (would
have been asked by now).

Annacone is in a similar boat - unlikely to be anything there.

Who else is there - Gilbert? Zero chance. Er, ....

Actually someone like Wilander might be interesting (!) - but Federer
likes to do things his own way which would make a coach's job pretty
difficult.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 12:06:32
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 11:57 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> On Jan 9, 11:44 am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> > > career.
>
> > Thoughts?
>
> Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?

People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.

Fed is fundamentally a baseline player with enough variety, and he
won't have much to gain from Cahill, repertoire-wise.


  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 20:08:50
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation

On 9-Jan-2009, Shakes <kvcshake@gmail.com > wrote:

> People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
> a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.

At first glance I thought you wrote arancione and I thought you had lost
your mind!


   
Date: 09 Jan 2009 20:45:58
From: Iceberg
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
"jdeluise" <jdeluise@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:Y9O9l.2491$1k1.1282@newsfe14.iad...
>
> On 9-Jan-2009, Shakes <kvcshake@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
>> a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.
>
> At first glance I thought you wrote arancione and I thought you had lost
> your mind!

LOL!!




   
Date: 09 Jan 2009 22:21:02
From: TT
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
jdeluise wrote:
> On 9-Jan-2009, Shakes <kvcshake@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> People talk too much about Cahill as fed's coach. I think Annacone is
>> a better fit for fed. He will sharpen fed's serve and attacking game.
>
> At first glance I thought you wrote arancione and I thought you had lost
> your mind!

I think Calhoun would be better.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 11:57:14
From: Sao Paulo Swallow
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 11:44=A0am, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> > He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> > career.
>
> Thoughts?

Well, Cahill is always mentioned. Is he still an ESPN commentator?


  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 17:26:54
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On 10 Jan., 07:04, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:18:04 -0800 (PST), "arnab.z@gmail"
>
>
>
> <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 10 Jan., 04:06, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> > pointed them out would Federer take notice and make the changes?
>
> >> > Not really, no. There was nothing overly wrong with Federer today
> >> > really. Just made a few too many unforced errors from the baseline. He
> >> > had Murray by the throat in the beginning of the third set. It was
> >> > 1-1, 0-40 three breakpoints in Murray's serve. Federer makes that
> >> > break, Murray becomes crestfallen and the total complexion of the
> >> > match changes.
>
> >> That was the second set - Federer only won three more games after
> >> failing to break.
>
> >No no. Third set. Murray took an injury timeout after barely holding
> >that game.
>
> Don't know if that happened in the 3rd set, but exactly that happened
> in the 2nd set anyway. 1-1, 0-40 on Murray's serve. Just watched it
> and I don't have the 3rd set.

Yeah, I mixed up there. Actually I am forgetting the details of this
match every passing hour.


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 11:44:37
From: andrew.reys@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> career.

Thoughts?


  
Date: 10 Jan 2009 13:20:23
From:
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
"andrew.reys@gmail.com" <andrew.reys@gmail.com > writes:

> On Jan 9, 10:58 am, Sao Paulo Swallow <Sao_Paulo_Swal...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Any news about that? Or rumor?
>>
>> He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
>> career.
>
> Thoughts?

Lundgren?


 
Date: 09 Jan 2009 19:18:29
From: Iceberg
Subject: Re: Federer's coaching situation
"Sao Paulo Swallow" <Sao_Paulo_Swallow@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:d9972700-cdba-4850-a622-adb1eea0e21c@r41g2000prr.googlegroups.com...
> Any news about that? Or rumor?
>
> He needs a coach to help him transition into the final third of his
> career.

I'm available!