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Date: 27 Jan 2009 23:24:27
From: Shakes
Subject: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
is to take the legs away from the opponent.

For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
anymore, sad to say.

Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
consistently, your chances will come.

Sigh !




 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 12:38:32
From:
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On Jan 28, 1:24=A0am, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>
> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
> anymore, sad to say.
>
> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
> consistently, your chances will come.
>
> Sigh !

you understand that if you give your opponent easy service games, he
will come out harder on your own service games and it will be harder
for you to stay in the match, don't you?

Tsonga has 13 BPs to show for his efforts. Verdasco's lefty wide out
serve bailed him out on almost all of those. That was the single most
deciding factor of the match.


 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 18:58:39
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason

On 27-Jan-2009, Shakes <kvcshake@gmail.com > wrote:

> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>
> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
> anymore, sad to say.
>
> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
> consistently, your chances will come.
>
> Sigh !

The problem with this is that Tsonga *did* have his chances to break
Verdasco more in the match. He faced an awful lot of break points, and had
Verdasco's level dropped somewhat or Tsonga cut out some of the errors it
would have been a very different match. It's not easy to deal with it when
people are pressuring your serve consistently.


 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 04:17:49
From: Fan
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
> not ever.
> So all these guys know that they can get broken.
>
> Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.

Sampras won 14 slams and it is nothing to sneeze at but
His only competitor was Agassi who, according to rabid Sampras fans
was a bum and no good at all
Never mind that Agassi beat Sampras 14 times against Sampras' 20 wins
Never mind that Agassi won the French and Olympic Gold, according to
rabid Sampras fans he was still a bum
Could have been 15-19 but Agassi gave the ailing Sampras a break - who
is counting
Federer looks like the favorite to take the Australian but even if he
does not, he has Wimbledon and the US to look for
That would give Federer 14 slams with many top competitors, not just
one loser to contend with :)





  
Date: 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 04:17:49 -0800 (PST), Fan
<TurnagainArm@hotmail.com > wrote:

>> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
>> not ever.
>> So all these guys know that they can get broken.
>>
>> Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.
>
>Sampras won 14 slams and it is nothing to sneeze at but
>His only competitor was Agassi who, according to rabid Sampras fans
>was a bum and no good at all
>Never mind that Agassi beat Sampras 14 times against Sampras' 20 wins
>Never mind that Agassi won the French and Olympic Gold, according to
>rabid Sampras fans he was still a bum
>Could have been 15-19 but Agassi gave the ailing Sampras a break - who
>is counting
>Federer looks like the favorite to take the Australian but even if he
>does not, he has Wimbledon and the US to look for
>That would give Federer 14 slams with many top competitors, not just
>one loser to contend with :)
>
>


whisper has *no* credibilty here anymore. forget him.


 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 01:54:33
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On Jan 28, 1:23 am, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Shakes wrote:
> > Let me clarify what I mean. A guy like Ferrer, I can understand his MO
> > to run around till he falls down. That's because he cannot assert his
> > power. But guys like Tsonga, Fed, Roddick, or even the Djoker. They
> > have a big enough serve, enough power to push the opponents back. And
> > yet they are ready to run around in Verdasco's or Nadal's service
> > games.
>
> I cannot see why this is an argument against trying to catch every ball
> if you have the energy to do it.
>

That is a big IF when you are playing against Nadal :-) that was my
point.

> > If you are not good enough to hold on to your service games when
> > playing the top guys like Nadal, you surely have no chance to break
> > your opponent's serve enough times to win 3/5 sets. Pretty simple to
> > me, really.
>
> Noone is "good enough" to hold on to every service game in a five set
> match. That goes for Sampras or any splendid server. Once in a while
> your serve is not there and you need to base your game on other aspects.
> Because there always is a risk for losing your serve, it is a big
> advantage to try to break your opponent's serve. Pretty simple to me,
> really.
>

The above rule doesn't apply to Nadal. Since Borg, I have never seen
anybody being able to maintain their focus through 5 sets like Nadal.

If I am going against Nadal, i know two things going in:

1. Nadal can maintain his focus throughout the match much better than
I can.

2. Nadal, given his topspin, has a much greater margin for error than
I have. So, he can hit harder and and closer to the lines AND with
more consistency than I can. Which means he can rally till the cows
come home and he can make me run too.

When you combine both, I know that I will have less chances to break
Nadal than he will have against me, if I keep playing his game.

So, on Nadal's serve, I would put a premium on the number of shots in
the rally. Essentially, I would pull the trigger at the earliest
opportunity. I would rather try and win the point on the 6th stroke by
going for the winning shot, than lose the point after playing 20
strokes and running around the baseline. And lose the point I will
unless I have extremely hard and powerful shots ala Tsonga or a Safin
on fire, that all land in.

So, it makes sense to pull the trigger as early as you can on his
serve. Who knows ? You might make a couple of shots in a game and put
the pressure on him. Further, you will deny him the rhythm.

I am just curious to see how Sampras would've played against Nadal.
Considering what Tsonga was able to do to Nadal last year, I think
Sampras would do well.






  
Date: 28 Jan 2009 12:30:04
From: Petter Solbu
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
Shakes wrote:

> So, on Nadal's serve, I would put a premium on the number of shots in
> the rally. Essentially, I would pull the trigger at the earliest
> opportunity. I would rather try and win the point on the 6th stroke by
> going for the winning shot, than lose the point after playing 20
> strokes and running around the baseline. And lose the point I will
> unless I have extremely hard and powerful shots ala Tsonga or a Safin
> on fire, that all land in.

This is a completely different matter. You started with saying that you
couldn't understand why players run as fast as they can to keep the ball
in play because you thought it was a waste of energy. That is the point
I responded to. Of course - players like Tsonga and Safin should try to
play aggressively and play a risky game against Nadal, no question.

> I am just curious to see how Sampras would've played against Nadal.
> Considering what Tsonga was able to do to Nadal last year, I think
> Sampras would do well.

Hard to say. On today's grass and HC I think it would have been pretty
close. On clay it would have been a comfortable win for Nadal. But
overall I am no fan of intergenerational comparisons in sports. All
sports change so much over a generation.

PS.


 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 01:52:40
From:
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason

> He lost his serve 11 times in yec final, also lost set 4-6 (dropping
> serve twice) after leading rafa 4-1 in Wimbledon final etc - he's no
> Sampras.

11 times now? It's increasing every time you mention this ...



  
Date: 28 Jan 2009 10:06:36
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
<gregorawe@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:43305c48-c8aa-447d-ad38-13e2c26f3ae7@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
>> He lost his serve 11 times in yec final, also lost set 4-6 (dropping
>> serve twice) after leading rafa 4-1 in Wimbledon final etc - he's no
>> Sampras.
>
> 11 times now? It's increasing every time you mention this ...
>


It's always increasing, whatever favors Sampras....



 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 01:06:03
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On Jan 28, 12:18 am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com > wrote:
> "Bink B" <dung...@disney.com> wrote in message
>
> news:glp3qr$2sja$1@zook.lafn.org...
>
>
>
> > defco...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> On Jan 27, 11:24 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
> >>> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>
> >>> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
> >>> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
> >>> anymore, sad to say.
>
> >>> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
> >>> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
> >>> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
> >>> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
> >>> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
> >>> consistently, your chances will come.
>
> >>> Sigh !
>
> >> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
> >> not ever.
>
> > I'd hate to say not ever... but certainly nothing better since. It was
> > THE weapon in the Sampras arsenal. Plenty of people better in every other
> > dept. but not the serve... not when it counted most. He'd have had trouble
> > in this era but he still would have won slices of the pie.
>
> > > Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.
>
> > yep.
>
> Seems to me that Fed's serve is a big weapon and has bailed him out of many
> big matches. Off the top of my head:
>
> 2007 Wimbledon final, 25 aces
> 2008 AO R3 40 aces
> 2008 USO semi, 20+ aces
> 2009 AO R4 20 aces against Berdych
>
> It's like when he doesn't need the aces, he gets about 10 or so, but when he
> does need it they come in droves.

It's fed's 2nd serve that falls well below Sampras. If fed had
sampras' 2nd serve, he wouldn't lose to nadal off clay.


 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 00:34:15
From: ghell666
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On 28 Jan, 07:33, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> Verdasco said Agassi gave him some tips which helped him a lot - it's a
> secret & he won't divulge, but I'm thinking it's something along the
> lines of realizing it's a clown era & all he had to do was try & win
> every point.

Maybe hes the one who told him to stop fucking around with Ana ?

I dont see Verdasaco as week in / week out competitor but I could be
wrong - he just doesnt translate as being that good but rather someone
with less talent whose on very hot streak.

Nadal will probably know every trick in his book and beat him in 3 -4
sets.


 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 00:19:33
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On Jan 28, 12:03 am, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Shakes wrote:
> > But my ire is more on their opponents. Why do they do all the
> > running ? Right from game 1 till they drop down. The fundamental
> > approach to tennis, IMO, is to make sure you hold your serve. Spend
> > all your energies to that end. If you can do that consistently, you
> > will get your chances to break as the match wears on. If your opponent
> > is as good as you, you will at least take it to the t/b, where your
> > chances are as good as your opponent's. If you still lose, take your
> > hat off to your opponent.
>
> Well, as I see it you have too opportunities:
> 1) Become extremely fit so that you can run for hours and keep the ball
> in play as long as possible on every point.
> 2) Stay more focused on your own service games and therefore avoid
> focusing that much on the fitness part.
>
> If most guys are running strategy number 2, then some guy has incentives
> to start running strategy 1. Eventuelly you have to go for strategy 1 to
> compete among the top guys.
>
> Of course - in the end of a long match it surely is a trade-off between
> use of energy and gaining important points when you return. I am sure
> that most guys are thinking about this trade-off in the end of long matches.
>
> PS.

Let me clarify what I mean. A guy like Ferrer, I can understand his MO
to run around till he falls down. That's because he cannot assert his
power. But guys like Tsonga, Fed, Roddick, or even the Djoker. They
have a big enough serve, enough power to push the opponents back. And
yet they are ready to run around in Verdasco's or Nadal's service
games.

If you are not good enough to hold on to your service games when
playing the top guys like Nadal, you surely have no chance to break
your opponent's serve enough times to win 3/5 sets. Pretty simple to
me, really.


  
Date: 28 Jan 2009 10:23:06
From: Petter Solbu
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
Shakes wrote:

> Let me clarify what I mean. A guy like Ferrer, I can understand his MO
> to run around till he falls down. That's because he cannot assert his
> power. But guys like Tsonga, Fed, Roddick, or even the Djoker. They
> have a big enough serve, enough power to push the opponents back. And
> yet they are ready to run around in Verdasco's or Nadal's service
> games.

I cannot see why this is an argument against trying to catch every ball
if you have the energy to do it.

> If you are not good enough to hold on to your service games when
> playing the top guys like Nadal, you surely have no chance to break
> your opponent's serve enough times to win 3/5 sets. Pretty simple to
> me, really.

Noone is "good enough" to hold on to every service game in a five set
match. That goes for Sampras or any splendid server. Once in a while
your serve is not there and you need to base your game on other aspects.
Because there always is a risk for losing your serve, it is a big
advantage to try to break your opponent's serve. Pretty simple to me,
really.

PS.


 
Date: 27 Jan 2009 23:42:25
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On Jan 27, 11:38 pm, defco...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 27, 11:24 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
> > is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>
> > For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
> > two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
> > anymore, sad to say.
>
> > Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
> > opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
> > use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
> > Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
> > Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
> > consistently, your chances will come.
>
> > Sigh !
>
> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
> not ever.
> So all these guys know that they can get broken.
>
> Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.

So, they think they are better off wasting valuable energy in trying
to break the opponent's serve ? That only makes the problem of holding
your serve even worse. And I think Tsonga has a very good serve and
enough power to not play to Verdasco's strategy.


 
Date: 27 Jan 2009 23:40:32
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On Jan 27, 11:33 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> Verdasco said Agassi gave him some tips which helped him a lot - it's a
> secret & he won't divulge, but I'm thinking it's something along the
> lines of realizing it's a clown era & all he had to do was try & win
> every point.

Verdasco is no Agassi. He's just playing like Muster and Courier used
to do, make it a physical battle. Luckily for him, there are foolish
opponents willing to do the running.


 
Date: 27 Jan 2009 23:38:15
From:
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On Jan 27, 11:24=A0pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>
> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
> anymore, sad to say.
>
> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
> consistently, your chances will come.
>
> Sigh !

NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
not ever.
So all these guys know that they can get broken.

Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.


  
Date: 28 Jan 2009 00:07:21
From: Bink B
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
defcon79@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 27, 11:24 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
>> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>>
>> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
>> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
>> anymore, sad to say.
>>
>> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
>> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
>> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
>> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
>> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
>> consistently, your chances will come.
>>
>> Sigh !
>
> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
> not ever.

I'd hate to say not ever... but certainly nothing better since. It
was THE weapon in the Sampras arsenal. Plenty of people better in every
other dept. but not the serve... not when it counted most. He'd have had
trouble in this era but he still would have won slices of the pie.

> Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.

yep.


   
Date: 28 Jan 2009 08:18:04
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
"Bink B" <dungwad@disney.com > wrote in message
news:glp3qr$2sja$1@zook.lafn.org...
> defcon79@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Jan 27, 11:24 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
>>> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>>>
>>> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
>>> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
>>> anymore, sad to say.
>>>
>>> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
>>> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
>>> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
>>> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
>>> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
>>> consistently, your chances will come.
>>>
>>> Sigh !
>>
>> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
>> not ever.
>
> I'd hate to say not ever... but certainly nothing better since. It was
> THE weapon in the Sampras arsenal. Plenty of people better in every other
> dept. but not the serve... not when it counted most. He'd have had trouble
> in this era but he still would have won slices of the pie.
>
> > Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.
>
> yep.


Seems to me that Fed's serve is a big weapon and has bailed him out of many
big matches. Off the top of my head:

2007 Wimbledon final, 25 aces
2008 AO R3 40 aces
2008 USO semi, 20+ aces
2009 AO R4 20 aces against Berdych

It's like when he doesn't need the aces, he gets about 10 or so, but when he
does need it they come in droves.



    
Date: 28 Jan 2009 20:31:39
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
Stapler wrote:
> "Bink B" <dungwad@disney.com> wrote in message
> news:glp3qr$2sja$1@zook.lafn.org...
>> defcon79@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 27, 11:24 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
>>>> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>>>>
>>>> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
>>>> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
>>>> anymore, sad to say.
>>>>
>>>> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
>>>> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
>>>> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
>>>> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
>>>> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
>>>> consistently, your chances will come.
>>>>
>>>> Sigh !
>>>
>>> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
>>> not ever.
>>
>> I'd hate to say not ever... but certainly nothing better since. It
>> was THE weapon in the Sampras arsenal. Plenty of people better in
>> every other dept. but not the serve... not when it counted most. He'd
>> have had trouble in this era but he still would have won slices of the
>> pie.
>>
>> > Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.
>>
>> yep.
>
>
> Seems to me that Fed's serve is a big weapon and has bailed him out of
> many big matches. Off the top of my head:
>
> 2007 Wimbledon final, 25 aces
> 2008 AO R3 40 aces
> 2008 USO semi, 20+ aces
> 2009 AO R4 20 aces against Berdych
>
> It's like when he doesn't need the aces, he gets about 10 or so, but
> when he does need it they come in droves.


He lost his serve 11 times in yec final, also lost set 4-6 (dropping
serve twice) after leading rafa 4-1 in Wimbledon final etc - he's no
Sampras.



     
Date: 28 Jan 2009 09:42:45
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
"Whisper" <beaver999@ozemail.com.au > wrote in message
news:498025fe$0$14889$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Stapler wrote:
>> "Bink B" <dungwad@disney.com> wrote in message
>> news:glp3qr$2sja$1@zook.lafn.org...
>>> defcon79@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Jan 27, 11:24 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
>>>>> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>>>>>
>>>>> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
>>>>> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
>>>>> anymore, sad to say.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
>>>>> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
>>>>> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
>>>>> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
>>>>> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
>>>>> consistently, your chances will come.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sigh !
>>>>
>>>> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
>>>> not ever.
>>>
>>> I'd hate to say not ever... but certainly nothing better since. It was
>>> THE weapon in the Sampras arsenal. Plenty of people better in every
>>> other dept. but not the serve... not when it counted most. He'd have had
>>> trouble in this era but he still would have won slices of the pie.
>>>
>>> > Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.
>>>
>>> yep.
>>
>>
>> Seems to me that Fed's serve is a big weapon and has bailed him out of
>> many big matches. Off the top of my head:
>>
>> 2007 Wimbledon final, 25 aces
>> 2008 AO R3 40 aces
>> 2008 USO semi, 20+ aces
>> 2009 AO R4 20 aces against Berdych
>>
>> It's like when he doesn't need the aces, he gets about 10 or so, but when
>> he does need it they come in droves.
>
>
> He lost his serve 11 times in yec final, also lost set 4-6 (dropping serve
> twice) after leading rafa 4-1 in Wimbledon final etc - he's no Sampras.
>


As if Sampras never lost his serve at Wimbledon - see 1996 vs Krajicek. Fact
is at the same age they both have 5 Wimbledon titles so I don't see your
point.



      
Date: 28 Jan 2009 01:59:39
From: Bink B
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
Stapler wrote:
> "Whisper" <beaver999@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:498025fe$0$14889$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> Stapler wrote:
>>> "Bink B" <dungwad@disney.com> wrote in message
>>> news:glp3qr$2sja$1@zook.lafn.org...
>>>> defcon79@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 27, 11:24 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
>>>>>> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the
>>>>>> first
>>>>>> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras
>>>>>> attitude
>>>>>> anymore, sad to say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
>>>>>> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
>>>>>> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
>>>>>> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
>>>>>> consistently, your chances will come.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sigh !
>>>>>
>>>>> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
>>>>> not ever.
>>>>
>>>> I'd hate to say not ever... but certainly nothing better since. It
>>>> was THE weapon in the Sampras arsenal. Plenty of people better in
>>>> every other dept. but not the serve... not when it counted most.
>>>> He'd have had trouble in this era but he still would have won slices
>>>> of the pie.
>>>>
>>>> > Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.
>>>>
>>>> yep.
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems to me that Fed's serve is a big weapon and has bailed him out
>>> of many big matches. Off the top of my head:
>>>
>>> 2007 Wimbledon final, 25 aces
>>> 2008 AO R3 40 aces
>>> 2008 USO semi, 20+ aces
>>> 2009 AO R4 20 aces against Berdych
>>>
>>> It's like when he doesn't need the aces, he gets about 10 or so, but
>>> when he does need it they come in droves.
>>
>>
>> He lost his serve 11 times in yec final, also lost set 4-6 (dropping
>> serve twice) after leading rafa 4-1 in Wimbledon final etc - he's no
>> Sampras.
>>
>
>
> As if Sampras never lost his serve at Wimbledon - see 1996 vs Krajicek.
> Fact is at the same age they both have 5 Wimbledon titles so I don't see
> your point.

There isn't one. Sampras is no Federer either. Fed's ability to break
and ability once the ball is in play is simply superior to Sampras. Of
course hand them a 1950's racket and court conditions so bad you might
have to wear cleats and Laver might beat them both.


      
Date: 28 Jan 2009 20:48:13
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
Stapler wrote:
> "Whisper" <beaver999@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:498025fe$0$14889$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> Stapler wrote:
>>> "Bink B" <dungwad@disney.com> wrote in message
>>> news:glp3qr$2sja$1@zook.lafn.org...
>>>> defcon79@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 27, 11:24 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
>>>>>> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the
>>>>>> first
>>>>>> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras
>>>>>> attitude
>>>>>> anymore, sad to say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
>>>>>> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
>>>>>> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
>>>>>> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
>>>>>> consistently, your chances will come.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sigh !
>>>>>
>>>>> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
>>>>> not ever.
>>>>
>>>> I'd hate to say not ever... but certainly nothing better since. It
>>>> was THE weapon in the Sampras arsenal. Plenty of people better in
>>>> every other dept. but not the serve... not when it counted most.
>>>> He'd have had trouble in this era but he still would have won slices
>>>> of the pie.
>>>>
>>>> > Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.
>>>>
>>>> yep.
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems to me that Fed's serve is a big weapon and has bailed him out
>>> of many big matches. Off the top of my head:
>>>
>>> 2007 Wimbledon final, 25 aces
>>> 2008 AO R3 40 aces
>>> 2008 USO semi, 20+ aces
>>> 2009 AO R4 20 aces against Berdych
>>>
>>> It's like when he doesn't need the aces, he gets about 10 or so, but
>>> when he does need it they come in droves.
>>
>>
>> He lost his serve 11 times in yec final, also lost set 4-6 (dropping
>> serve twice) after leading rafa 4-1 in Wimbledon final etc - he's no
>> Sampras.
>>
>
>
> As if Sampras never lost his serve at Wimbledon - see 1996 vs Krajicek.
> Fact is at the same age they both have 5 Wimbledon titles so I don't see
> your point.


Borg has 5 Wimbledons so I guess he was Sampras-level server? Good insight.



    
Date: 28 Jan 2009 00:39:20
From: Bink B
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
Stapler wrote:
> "Bink B" <dungwad@disney.com> wrote in message
> news:glp3qr$2sja$1@zook.lafn.org...
>> defcon79@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 27, 11:24 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
>>>> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>>>>
>>>> For that matter, I wonder why Tsonga did all that running in the first
>>>> two sets when Verdasco was serving. Nobody plays with Sampras attitude
>>>> anymore, sad to say.
>>>>
>>>> Sampras, rarely, very rarely, ran ragged around the court, esp. on his
>>>> opponent's serve. He knew it was a waste of energy. He would rather
>>>> use that energy to serve bombs. Now, Tsonga has a big enough serve.
>>>> Don't know why he was still bent on doing all the running on
>>>> Verdasco's serve. Cost him the 3rd set. If you hold your serve
>>>> consistently, your chances will come.
>>>>
>>>> Sigh !
>>>
>>> NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
>>> not ever.
>>
>> I'd hate to say not ever... but certainly nothing better since. It
>> was THE weapon in the Sampras arsenal. Plenty of people better in
>> every other dept. but not the serve... not when it counted most. He'd
>> have had trouble in this era but he still would have won slices of the
>> pie.
>>
>> > Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.
>>
>> yep.
>
>
> Seems to me that Fed's serve is a big weapon and has bailed him out of
> many big matches. Off the top of my head:
>
> 2007 Wimbledon final, 25 aces
> 2008 AO R3 40 aces
> 2008 USO semi, 20+ aces
> 2009 AO R4 20 aces against Berdych
>
> It's like when he doesn't need the aces, he gets about 10 or so, but
> when he does need it they come in droves.


Fed's serve is really good... maybe great at times. But it's not like
the Sampras serve was in the big matches. I think Sampras can serve
almost as great now but he can't stand up physically to 5-7 matches in a
row under the pressure anymore. Same with the great Pancho Gonzales...
he could still play with anyone and beat most at the age of 35-40 but in
a tournament he could only go so far before his tank ran dry.

legs go first, then heart, then head... and finally the Sampras serve.


  
Date: 28 Jan 2009 07:59:57
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
<defcon79@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:854f7acc-35ed-4939-846c-e3675a8422f2@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>NOBODY has Sampras' serve, and the confidence it gives them. Not now,
not ever.
So all these guys know that they can get broken.

Also tennis these days is a lot more physical.<<<<

I'd say Federer's serve is pretty damn close. Year after year he ranks in
the top 2-3 in all serving statistics.



 
Date: 27 Jan 2009 23:37:33
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
On Jan 27, 11:28 pm, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Shakes wrote:
> > Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
> > is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>
> Then I guess you hate Nadal or any decent clay court player.
>
> PS.

I initially didn't like Nadal's game, but now he's much better.

But my ire is more on their opponents. Why do they do all the
running ? Right from game 1 till they drop down. The fundamental
approach to tennis, IMO, is to make sure you hold your serve. Spend
all your energies to that end. If you can do that consistently, you
will get your chances to break as the match wears on. If your opponent
is as good as you, you will at least take it to the t/b, where your
chances are as good as your opponent's. If you still lose, take your
hat off to your opponent.

What do they think ? That they are going to break Nadal's serve right
away ? No chance. Don't let Nadal or a similar player make you run
around in his service games. Focus on your service games first. When
you run like a rabbit and lose your legs, the first shot (and most
important shot) to go is your serve. You then play right into Nadal's
hands.

I cannot imagine why these guys never think from this angle.


  
Date: 28 Jan 2009 09:03:17
From: Petter Solbu
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
Shakes wrote:

> But my ire is more on their opponents. Why do they do all the
> running ? Right from game 1 till they drop down. The fundamental
> approach to tennis, IMO, is to make sure you hold your serve. Spend
> all your energies to that end. If you can do that consistently, you
> will get your chances to break as the match wears on. If your opponent
> is as good as you, you will at least take it to the t/b, where your
> chances are as good as your opponent's. If you still lose, take your
> hat off to your opponent.

Well, as I see it you have too opportunities:
1) Become extremely fit so that you can run for hours and keep the ball
in play as long as possible on every point.
2) Stay more focused on your own service games and therefore avoid
focusing that much on the fitness part.

If most guys are running strategy number 2, then some guy has incentives
to start running strategy 1. Eventuelly you have to go for strategy 1 to
compete among the top guys.

Of course - in the end of a long match it surely is a trade-off between
use of energy and gaining important points when you return. I am sure
that most guys are thinking about this trade-off in the end of long matches.

PS.


 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 18:33:49
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason


Verdasco said Agassi gave him some tips which helped him a lot - it's a
secret & he won't divulge, but I'm thinking it's something along the
lines of realizing it's a clown era & all he had to do was try & win
every point.


 
Date: 28 Jan 2009 08:28:09
From: Petter Solbu
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
Shakes wrote:
> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
> is to take the legs away from the opponent.

Then I guess you hate Nadal or any decent clay court player.

PS.


  
Date: 28 Jan 2009 07:33:13
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: I just don't like Verdasco for some reason
"Petter Solbu" <pettermann1984@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:-qmdnYQt5buUlB3URVnzvQA@telenor.com...
> Shakes wrote:
>> Pulling for Tsonga here. I have never been a fan of players whose MO
>> is to take the legs away from the opponent.
>
> Then I guess you hate Nadal or any decent clay court player.
>
> PS.


Federer also runs like a rabbit on return games, so he must hate him too.