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Date: 21 Jan 2009 12:53:36
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal

Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal

Barack Obama has now been inaugurated as president, and the fear
expressed by MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Monday night that George Bush
might issue last-minute pardons of administration officials involved
in torture, possibly including himself, has not come to pass.

However, the torture issue itself is not going to go away so easily.
As Maddow also noted, "The calls for a reckoning are growing by the
day -- and not just from progressives outside the government."

"Do you think that Obama and his team realized how hot an issue this
would become and would stay?" Maddow asked Constitutional law
professor Jonathan Turley.

"I don't think so," Turley replied. "I don't think the people in that
building thought it," he added, pointing to the Capitol. "I mean, that
building is where principles go to die. And they haven't, because
there's been this groundswell of people saying, 'Look, you might be
able to get away with an electronic surveillance program and say
that's just a crime we're not going to allow to be prosecuted, but
these are war crimes., these are a special category.'"

"I think that the new Barack Obama, the President Obama, is going to
find it very hard to go round the world and to say that we're now
again the nation of rules of law," Turley suggested, "if the first act
he commits as president is to talk away from a confirmed war crime."

"Are we literally looking at a possibility," Maddow asked, "where
administration officials from this [previous] administration cannot
travel abroad to the other 145 countries that have signed the torture
treaty because they might get arrested?"

"Most certainly," Turley replied. "The status of George Bush is not
that different from Augusto Pinochet. They've both been accused of
running a torture program. And outside this country, there's not this
ambiguity about what to do with a war crime. ... Most people abroad
are going to view you not as former President George Bush, they're
going to view you as a current war criminal."

"And they're going to view us as an outlaw regime for not arresting
him on our own soil," Maddow remarked.

"I think so, unfortunately," Turley agreed. "A lot's at stake."


This video is from MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, broadcast Jan. 19,
2009.

http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=13941




 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 06:45:07
From: Professor X
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
On Jan 21, 12:53=A0pm, Dave Hazelwood <the_big_kah...@mailcity.com >
wrote:
> Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
>
> Barack Obama has now been inaugurated as president, and the fear
> expressed by MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Monday night that George Bush
> might issue last-minute pardons of administration officials involved
> in torture, possibly including himself, has not come to pass.
>
> However, the torture issue itself is not going to go away so easily.
> As Maddow also noted, "The calls for a reckoning are growing by the
> day -- and not just from progressives outside the government."
>
> "Do you think that Obama and his team realized how hot an issue this
> would become and would stay?" Maddow asked Constitutional law
> professor Jonathan Turley.
>
> "I don't think so," Turley replied. "I don't think the people in that
> building thought it," he added, pointing to the Capitol. "I mean, that
> building is where principles go to die. And they haven't, because
> there's been this groundswell of people saying, 'Look, you might be
> able to get away with an electronic surveillance program and say
> that's just a crime we're not going to allow to be prosecuted, but
> these are war crimes., these are a special category.'"
>
> "I think that the new Barack Obama, the President Obama, is going to
> find it very hard to go round the world and to say that we're now
> again the nation of rules of law," Turley suggested, "if the first act
> he commits as president is to talk away from a confirmed war crime."
>
> "Are we literally looking at a possibility," Maddow asked, "where
> administration officials from this [previous] administration cannot
> travel abroad to the other 145 countries that have signed the torture
> treaty because they might get arrested?"
>
> "Most certainly," Turley replied. "The status of George Bush is not
> that different from Augusto Pinochet. They've both been accused of
> running a torture program. And outside this country, there's not this
> ambiguity about what to do with a war crime. ... Most people abroad
> are going to view you not as former President George Bush, they're
> going to view you as a current war criminal."
>
> "And they're going to view us as an outlaw regime for not arresting
> him on our own soil," Maddow remarked.
>
> "I think so, unfortunately," Turley agreed. "A lot's at stake."
>
> This video is from MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, broadcast Jan. 19,
> 2009.
>
> http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=3D13941

Bush is a stupid moron, not a war criminal.


  
Date: 25 Jan 2009 16:02:53
From: xamigax@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
On 21 jan, 15:58, GOAT <thetruetennisg...@hotmail.co.uk > wrote:
> On Jan 21, 2:45 pm, Professor X <sueboka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 21, 12:53 pm, Dave Hazelwood <the_big_kah...@mailcity.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
>
> > > Barack Obama has now been inaugurated as president, and the fear
> > > expressed by MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Monday night that George Bush
> > > might issue last-minute pardons of administration officials involved
> > > in torture, possibly including himself, has not come to pass.
>
> > > However, the torture issue itself is not going to go away so easily.
> > > As Maddow also noted, "The calls for a reckoning are growing by the
> > > day -- and not just from progressives outside the government."
>
> > > "Do you think that Obama and his team realized how hot an issue this
> > > would become and would stay?" Maddow asked Constitutional law
> > > professor Jonathan Turley.
>
> > > "I don't think so," Turley replied. "I don't think the people in that
> > > building thought it," he added, pointing to the Capitol. "I mean, that
> > > building is where principles go to die. And they haven't, because
> > > there's been this groundswell of people saying, 'Look, you might be
> > > able to get away with an electronic surveillance program and say
> > > that's just a crime we're not going to allow to be prosecuted, but
> > > these are war crimes., these are a special category.'"
>
> > > "I think that the new Barack Obama, the President Obama, is going to
> > > find it very hard to go round the world and to say that we're now
> > > again the nation of rules of law," Turley suggested, "if the first act
> > > he commits as president is to talk away from a confirmed war crime."
>
> > > "Are we literally looking at a possibility," Maddow asked, "where
> > > administration officials from this [previous] administration cannot
> > > travel abroad to the other 145 countries that have signed the torture
> > > treaty because they might get arrested?"
>
> > > "Most certainly," Turley replied. "The status of George Bush is not
> > > that different from Augusto Pinochet. They've both been accused of
> > > running a torture program. And outside this country, there's not this
> > > ambiguity about what to do with a war crime. ... Most people abroad
> > > are going to view you not as former President George Bush, they're
> > > going to view you as a current war criminal."
>
> > > "And they're going to view us as an outlaw regime for not arresting
> > > him on our own soil," Maddow remarked.
>
> > > "I think so, unfortunately," Turley agreed. "A lot's at stake."
>
> > > This video is from MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, broadcast Jan. 19,
> > > 2009.
>
> > >http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=13941
>
> > Bush is a stupid moron, not a war criminal.
>
> Actually, he is both.

Well, no question for the moron part. He's the new standard for
moronic measure.
War criminal is a bit too much.
For what I know, Bush didn't rape people from Irak !
War criminals have bloods on their hands, whereas war leaders are
having their army to have (civilian) blood on its hands.
I dislike (to say the least) Bush Jr as Sr, but I just can't put W in
the same league as real war criminals.

He's an asshole, surrounded by avid cowards ready to send their
nation's troops to have their dirty hand on more petrol, and are as
well very likely to sell weapons to both side of any fight.
Can't trust people only caring for money.

Share & Enjoy,
Manolo


   
Date: 26 Jan 2009 01:29:24
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
Ah, I can see Hazelwood is up to his usual Bush-bashing antics in RST.


   
Date: 25 Jan 2009 18:25:46
From: Georgiana Gates
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
xamigax@gmail.com wrote:
> On 21 jan, 15:58, GOAT <thetruetennisg...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Jan 21, 2:45 pm, Professor X <sueboka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 21, 12:53 pm, Dave Hazelwood <the_big_kah...@mailcity.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
>>>> Barack Obama has now been inaugurated as president, and the fear
>>>> expressed by MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Monday night that George Bush
>>>> might issue last-minute pardons of administration officials involved
>>>> in torture, possibly including himself, has not come to pass.
>>>> However, the torture issue itself is not going to go away so easily.
>>>> As Maddow also noted, "The calls for a reckoning are growing by the
>>>> day -- and not just from progressives outside the government."
>>>> "Do you think that Obama and his team realized how hot an issue this
>>>> would become and would stay?" Maddow asked Constitutional law
>>>> professor Jonathan Turley.
>>>> "I don't think so," Turley replied. "I don't think the people in that
>>>> building thought it," he added, pointing to the Capitol. "I mean, that
>>>> building is where principles go to die. And they haven't, because
>>>> there's been this groundswell of people saying, 'Look, you might be
>>>> able to get away with an electronic surveillance program and say
>>>> that's just a crime we're not going to allow to be prosecuted, but
>>>> these are war crimes., these are a special category.'"
>>>> "I think that the new Barack Obama, the President Obama, is going to
>>>> find it very hard to go round the world and to say that we're now
>>>> again the nation of rules of law," Turley suggested, "if the first act
>>>> he commits as president is to talk away from a confirmed war crime."
>>>> "Are we literally looking at a possibility," Maddow asked, "where
>>>> administration officials from this [previous] administration cannot
>>>> travel abroad to the other 145 countries that have signed the torture
>>>> treaty because they might get arrested?"
>>>> "Most certainly," Turley replied. "The status of George Bush is not
>>>> that different from Augusto Pinochet. They've both been accused of
>>>> running a torture program. And outside this country, there's not this
>>>> ambiguity about what to do with a war crime. ... Most people abroad
>>>> are going to view you not as former President George Bush, they're
>>>> going to view you as a current war criminal."
>>>> "And they're going to view us as an outlaw regime for not arresting
>>>> him on our own soil," Maddow remarked.
>>>> "I think so, unfortunately," Turley agreed. "A lot's at stake."
>>>> This video is from MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, broadcast Jan. 19,
>>>> 2009.
>>>> http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=13941
>>> Bush is a stupid moron, not a war criminal.
>> Actually, he is both.
>
> Well, no question for the moron part. He's the new standard for
> moronic measure.
> War criminal is a bit too much.
> For what I know, Bush didn't rape people from Irak !
> War criminals have bloods on their hands, whereas war leaders are
> having their army to have (civilian) blood on its hands.
> I dislike (to say the least) Bush Jr as Sr, but I just can't put W in
> the same league as real war criminals.
>
> He's an asshole, surrounded by avid cowards ready to send their
> nation's troops to have their dirty hand on more petrol, and are as
> well very likely to sell weapons to both side of any fight.
> Can't trust people only caring for money.
>
> Share & Enjoy,
> Manolo
One point about the Geneva Conventions - Ronald Reagan was the President
who signed them. That's going to give Obama some cover if he wants to
take it.


  
Date: 21 Jan 2009 12:36:10
From: GOAT
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
On Jan 21, 7:52=A0pm, "Stapler" <d...@d.com > wrote:
> "GOAT" <thetruetennisg...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:b013e341-c017-4aaf-9ce2-16d1d827a42e@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Actually, he is both.
>
> Then you are obligated to pursue him to the ends of the earth. He is
> Crawford, TX why aren't you there protesting him?

How do you know I'm not ;D


   
Date: 22 Jan 2009 01:06:59
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:36:10 -0800 (PST), GOAT
<thetruetennisgoat@hotmail.co.uk > wrote:

>On Jan 21, 7:52 pm, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>> "GOAT" <thetruetennisg...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> news:b013e341-c017-4aaf-9ce2-16d1d827a42e@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Actually, he is both.
>>
>> Then you are obligated to pursue him to the ends of the earth. He is
>> Crawford, TX why aren't you there protesting him?
>
>How do you know I'm not ;D


i'll help you get him.

i can't understand the secret service protecting a war criminal ! o
wait ! that's happened before with the SS.


  
Date: 21 Jan 2009 06:58:49
From: GOAT
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
On Jan 21, 2:45 pm, Professor X <sueboka...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 21, 12:53 pm, Dave Hazelwood <the_big_kah...@mailcity.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
>
> > Barack Obama has now been inaugurated as president, and the fear
> > expressed by MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Monday night that George Bush
> > might issue last-minute pardons of administration officials involved
> > in torture, possibly including himself, has not come to pass.
>
> > However, the torture issue itself is not going to go away so easily.
> > As Maddow also noted, "The calls for a reckoning are growing by the
> > day -- and not just from progressives outside the government."
>
> > "Do you think that Obama and his team realized how hot an issue this
> > would become and would stay?" Maddow asked Constitutional law
> > professor Jonathan Turley.
>
> > "I don't think so," Turley replied. "I don't think the people in that
> > building thought it," he added, pointing to the Capitol. "I mean, that
> > building is where principles go to die. And they haven't, because
> > there's been this groundswell of people saying, 'Look, you might be
> > able to get away with an electronic surveillance program and say
> > that's just a crime we're not going to allow to be prosecuted, but
> > these are war crimes., these are a special category.'"
>
> > "I think that the new Barack Obama, the President Obama, is going to
> > find it very hard to go round the world and to say that we're now
> > again the nation of rules of law," Turley suggested, "if the first act
> > he commits as president is to talk away from a confirmed war crime."
>
> > "Are we literally looking at a possibility," Maddow asked, "where
> > administration officials from this [previous] administration cannot
> > travel abroad to the other 145 countries that have signed the torture
> > treaty because they might get arrested?"
>
> > "Most certainly," Turley replied. "The status of George Bush is not
> > that different from Augusto Pinochet. They've both been accused of
> > running a torture program. And outside this country, there's not this
> > ambiguity about what to do with a war crime. ... Most people abroad
> > are going to view you not as former President George Bush, they're
> > going to view you as a current war criminal."
>
> > "And they're going to view us as an outlaw regime for not arresting
> > him on our own soil," Maddow remarked.
>
> > "I think so, unfortunately," Turley agreed. "A lot's at stake."
>
> > This video is from MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, broadcast Jan. 19,
> > 2009.
>
> >http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=13941
>
> Bush is a stupid moron, not a war criminal.

Actually, he is both.


   
Date: 21 Jan 2009 19:52:06
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
"GOAT" <thetruetennisgoat@hotmail.co.uk > wrote in message
news:b013e341-c017-4aaf-9ce2-16d1d827a42e@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
> Actually, he is both.


Then you are obligated to pursue him to the ends of the earth. He is
Crawford, TX why aren't you there protesting him?



 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 05:42:53
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
On Jan 21, 1:53=A0pm, Dave Hazelwood <the_big_kah...@mailcity.com >
wrote:

> Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
>
American living in Spain said that it would be nice not to be afraid
to admit being an American. Let=92s hope Obama do us proud. It would be
so nice to be liked and not hated for a change.



  
Date: 21 Jan 2009 06:16:43
From: guyana
Subject: Re: Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
On Jan 21, 8:42=A0am, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 21, 1:53=A0pm, Dave Hazelwood <the_big_kah...@mailcity.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Most people abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
>
> American living in Spain said that it would be nice not to be afraid
> to admit being an American. Let=92s hope Obama do us proud. It would be
> so nice to be liked and not hated for a change.

try Cheney for war crimes?