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Date: 04 Jan 2009 15:42:16
From:
Subject: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
http://www.atpworldtour.com/3/en/rankings/entrysystem/default.asp

However, it's not quite a case of doubling everyone's points, as there
is quite a bit of movement in positions - e.g. Wawrinka has dropped 3
spots to #16 and Simon moves up above Tsonga to #6.

It seems that the points from the first week of last year have dropped
off - presumably due to a shift in the calendar (e.g. last year's Doha/
Chennai started on 29th Dec 2007 but only starts tomorrow 5th Jan this
time). Nadal has lost 240 pts from Chennai but gained 50 from
Rotterdam.









 
Date: 06 Jan 2009 20:29:08
From: TT
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
Since reaching same stage gives less than these double points...this
points change pretty much fucks up my top4 career ranking point chart. :(

...Unless I just x 1,7(that's about how much points the new system gives
compared to old, for top4 players) all previous points and calculate
new points myself after each event during 2009. Then I had to change
those points in year end to match the correct ranking points.

If I would just double current points the chart wouldn't be accurate
enough to mirror career and form development, as that was my point for
the chart. Craps.

Maybe I'll do it if Nadal wins AO ;)


--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 05 Jan 2009 14:44:36
From:
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
On Jan 5, 9:14=A0pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:16:33 -0800 (PST), gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> Plus, the points table is rather different - it's skewed much more hea=
vily
> >> toward rewarding title wins and, to a lesser extent, finals. Plus,
> >> optional events are worth proportionately less. So the table should sh=
ow
> >> quite a few changes.
>
> >Not now though - the only changes are doubling of last year's points.
> >The changes in point allocations do not come into play until the 2009
> >tournaments are played. Otherwise, points which were won last season
> >would be immediately worth less which would be totally unfair.
>
> >E.g. Tsonga got 700 points for runner-up at AO last year - this is now
> >1400. If he repeats that performance this year he will only get 1200.
>
> >The change in positions is purely due to the calendar shift - events
> >have dropped off a week early. Notice that Federer's points are
> >exactly double his old ones since he did not play the first week of
> >last season and so did not lose any points.
>
> >Of course, it might have been sensible for the doubling to have taken
> >place when there were no other factors to affect the rankings, e.g. do
> >it a week earlier as Sakari suggested. However, this is the ATP we are
> >talking about ...
>
> I didn't think about that though. I just thought a week ago would have
> been a good time close to the change of the year. I have written
> couple of articles about how Jarkko has a lot of points to defend in
> January. But now I noticed he already dropped from 37 to 41, and I
> realized that was because Adelaide last year was in week 1, but
> Brisbane (that replaced Adelaide) is now in week 2, so the points from
> last year dropped already.

Yes, but there was no reason to wait to double the points since it
wouldn't have changed any ranking positions as long as there were no
tournaments on.

I thought it was ok to leave it until this week but forgot that there
were already changes due to the calendar shift.

Now it looks like positions have changed partly due to the change in
the ranking system unless you examine it closely.





 
Date: 05 Jan 2009 08:16:33
From:
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
> Plus, the points table is rather different - it's skewed much more heavily
> toward rewarding title wins and, to a lesser extent, finals. Plus,
> optional events are worth proportionately less. So the table should show
> quite a few changes.

Not now though - the only changes are doubling of last year's points.
The changes in point allocations do not come into play until the 2009
tournaments are played. Otherwise, points which were won last season
would be immediately worth less which would be totally unfair.

E.g. Tsonga got 700 points for runner-up at AO last year - this is now
1400. If he repeats that performance this year he will only get 1200.

The change in positions is purely due to the calendar shift - events
have dropped off a week early. Notice that Federer's points are
exactly double his old ones since he did not play the first week of
last season and so did not lose any points.

Of course, it might have been sensible for the doubling to have taken
place when there were no other factors to affect the rankings, e.g. do
it a week earlier as Sakari suggested. However, this is the ATP we are
talking about ...








  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 23:14:23
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:16:33 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:

>> Plus, the points table is rather different - it's skewed much more heavily
>> toward rewarding title wins and, to a lesser extent, finals. Plus,
>> optional events are worth proportionately less. So the table should show
>> quite a few changes.
>
>Not now though - the only changes are doubling of last year's points.
>The changes in point allocations do not come into play until the 2009
>tournaments are played. Otherwise, points which were won last season
>would be immediately worth less which would be totally unfair.
>
>E.g. Tsonga got 700 points for runner-up at AO last year - this is now
>1400. If he repeats that performance this year he will only get 1200.
>
>The change in positions is purely due to the calendar shift - events
>have dropped off a week early. Notice that Federer's points are
>exactly double his old ones since he did not play the first week of
>last season and so did not lose any points.
>
>Of course, it might have been sensible for the doubling to have taken
>place when there were no other factors to affect the rankings, e.g. do
>it a week earlier as Sakari suggested. However, this is the ATP we are
>talking about ...

I didn't think about that though. I just thought a week ago would have
been a good time close to the change of the year. I have written
couple of articles about how Jarkko has a lot of points to defend in
January. But now I noticed he already dropped from 37 to 41, and I
realized that was because Adelaide last year was in week 1, but
Brisbane (that replaced Adelaide) is now in week 2, so the points from
last year dropped already.

.



  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 13:56:29
From: Ted S.
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:16:33 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:

> Of course, it might have been sensible for the doubling to have taken
> place when there were no other factors to affect the rankings, e.g. do
> it a week earlier as Sakari suggested. However, this is the ATP we are
> talking about ...

It's also the WTA we're talking about. Kuznetsova is listed as
defending 380 points this week, twice what she earned last year for
reaching the Sydney final.

--
Ted Schuerzinger
tedstennis at myrealbox dot com
If you're afraid of the ball, don't sit in the front row. --Anastasia
Rodionova


   
Date: 06 Jan 2009 09:51:20
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
Ted S. wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:16:33 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Of course, it might have been sensible for the doubling to have taken
>> place when there were no other factors to affect the rankings, e.g.
>> do it a week earlier as Sakari suggested. However, this is the ATP
>> we are talking about ...
>
> It's also the WTA we're talking about. Kuznetsova is listed as
> defending 380 points this week, twice what she earned last year for
> reaching the Sydney final.

Are there any other changes in the WTA? Doubling points and doing nothing else
is useless unless they are only roughly aligning their points with the ATP's,
which isn't of much use either if they don't award points similarly.




   
Date: 05 Jan 2009 23:15:18
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:56:29 -0500, "Ted S." <tedstennis@myrealbox.com >
wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:16:33 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Of course, it might have been sensible for the doubling to have taken
>> place when there were no other factors to affect the rankings, e.g. do
>> it a week earlier as Sakari suggested. However, this is the ATP we are
>> talking about ...
>
>It's also the WTA we're talking about. Kuznetsova is listed as
>defending 380 points this week, twice what she earned last year for
>reaching the Sydney final.

I didn't realize that WTA points doubled too. Jankovic has over 9000
points now.


    
Date: 05 Jan 2009 16:59:56
From:
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
In article <c2u4m4hvko43ptr4jel5a0mct5oq3g9g15@4ax.com >,
sakari.lund@welho.com (Sakari Lund) wrote:

> >
> >It's also the WTA we're talking about. Kuznetsova is listed as
> >defending 380 points this week, twice what she earned last year for
> >reaching the Sydney final.
>
> I didn't realize that WTA points doubled too. Jankovic has over 9000
> points now.

The WTA has made quite a few other changes, too. The tournament tiers are
all different; there are many more required events.

wg


     
Date: 06 Jan 2009 13:31:00
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:59:56 -0600, wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

>In article <c2u4m4hvko43ptr4jel5a0mct5oq3g9g15@4ax.com>,
>sakari.lund@welho.com (Sakari Lund) wrote:
>
>> >
>> >It's also the WTA we're talking about. Kuznetsova is listed as
>> >defending 380 points this week, twice what she earned last year for
>> >reaching the Sydney final.
>>
>> I didn't realize that WTA points doubled too. Jankovic has over 9000
>> points now.
>
>The WTA has made quite a few other changes, too. The tournament tiers are
>all different; there are many more required events.

Yes, I knew there were changes, but I didn't realize they would double
the points too.





      
Date: 06 Jan 2009 15:02:57
From: Vari L. Cinicke
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
Sakari Lund wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:59:56 -0600, wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>
>> In article <c2u4m4hvko43ptr4jel5a0mct5oq3g9g15@4ax.com>,
>> sakari.lund@welho.com (Sakari Lund) wrote:
>>
>>>> It's also the WTA we're talking about. Kuznetsova is listed as
>>>> defending 380 points this week, twice what she earned last year for
>>>> reaching the Sydney final.
>>> I didn't realize that WTA points doubled too. Jankovic has over 9000
>>> points now.
>> The WTA has made quite a few other changes, too. The tournament tiers are
>> all different; there are many more required events.
>
> Yes, I knew there were changes, but I didn't realize they would double
> the points too.
>
>
>

There are serious rumblings of a joint tour. This might be a hint in
that direction.

--
Cheers,

vc


       
Date: 06 Jan 2009 11:54:48
From:
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
In article <BoK8l.114388$_Y1.63493@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net >,
cinicke@netscape.net (Vari L. Cinicke) wrote:

>
> There are serious rumblings of a joint tour. This might be a hint
> in that direction.

How soon the women forget why they had a separate tour in the first
place...

But times do change, and there's some logic to it, although it will make
the Slams less "special". It would be nice to see mixed doubles more often.

wg


 
Date: 05 Jan 2009 06:12:01
From: Scott
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
On Jan 5, 6:11=A0am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> > In article
> > <609379c3-d2a1-45d6-b7f7-6d699d446...@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> > gregor...@hotmail.com () wrote:
>
> >>http://www.atpworldtour.com/3/en/rankings/entrysystem/default.asp
>
> >> However, it's not quite a case of doubling everyone's points, as
> >> there
> >> is quite a bit of movement in positions - e.g. Wawrinka has dropped
> >> 3
> >> spots to #16 and Simon moves up above Tsonga to #6.
>
> >> It seems that the points from the first week of last year have
> >> dropped
> >> off - presumably due to a shift in the calendar (e.g. last year's
> >> Doha/
> >> Chennai started on 29th Dec 2007 but only starts tomorrow 5th Jan
> >> this
> >> time). Nadal has lost 240 pts from Chennai but gained 50 from
> >> Rotterdam.
>
> > Plus, the points table is rather different - it's skewed much more heav=
ily
> > toward rewarding title wins and, to a lesser extent, finals. Plus,
> > optional events are worth proportionately less. So the table should sho=
w
> > quite a few changes.
>
> > Waltz has been writing for Daily Tennis about how profound the changes =
are.
>
> > wg
>
> Ask Waltz if he's waiting for me to leave before he returns to rst?-

just think how RST would thrive in your absence...





 
Date: 05 Jan 2009 09:08:16
From: Iceberg
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
<gregorawe@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:609379c3-d2a1-45d6-b7f7-6d699d4463ae@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.atpworldtour.com/3/en/rankings/entrysystem/default.asp
>
> However, it's not quite a case of doubling everyone's points, as there
> is quite a bit of movement in positions - e.g. Wawrinka has dropped 3
> spots to #16 and Simon moves up above Tsonga to #6.
>
> It seems that the points from the first week of last year have dropped
> off - presumably due to a shift in the calendar (e.g. last year's Doha/
> Chennai started on 29th Dec 2007 but only starts tomorrow 5th Jan this
> time). Nadal has lost 240 pts from Chennai but gained 50 from
> Rotterdam.

Nadal now has the highest number of ranking points ever in history!




  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 15:05:48
From:
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
On Jan 5, 9:44=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> > In article <46k8l.15324$Sp5.1...@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
> > big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay (Iceberg) wrote:
>
> >> Nadal now has the highest number of ranking points ever in history!
>
> > Yes, and the comparison is utterly meaningless. The notion of history
> > seems completely lost on the ATP.
>
> > No one could sensibly argue that Nadal's 2008 was 2,000 points better t=
han
> > Federer's 2006.
>
> > wg
>
> Apparently it was.

Er, Federer's 2006 - 8370 points.

Nadal's 2008 - 13160 points.

Nearly 5000 points better - what an amazing achievement





  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 14:56:26
From:
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
On Jan 5, 4:34=A0pm, wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article <46k8l.15324$Sp5.1...@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
>
> big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay (Iceberg) wrote:
>
> > Nadal now has the highest number of ranking points ever in history!
>
> Yes, and the comparison is utterly meaningless. The notion of history
> seems completely lost on the ATP.
>
> No one could sensibly argue that Nadal's 2008 was 2,000 points better tha=
n
> Federer's 2006.
>
> wg

boohoo.


  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 15:34:06
From:
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
In article <46k8l.15324$Sp5.1620@text.news.virginmedia.com >,
big_bad_iceberg@moc.oohay (Iceberg) wrote:

>
> Nadal now has the highest number of ranking points ever in history!
>
>

Yes, and the comparison is utterly meaningless. The notion of history
seems completely lost on the ATP.

No one could sensibly argue that Nadal's 2008 was 2,000 points better than
Federer's 2006.

wg



   
Date: 05 Jan 2009 23:44:20
From: TT
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article <46k8l.15324$Sp5.1620@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
> big_bad_iceberg@moc.oohay (Iceberg) wrote:
>
>> Nadal now has the highest number of ranking points ever in history!
>>
>>
>
> Yes, and the comparison is utterly meaningless. The notion of history
> seems completely lost on the ATP.
>
> No one could sensibly argue that Nadal's 2008 was 2,000 points better than
> Federer's 2006.
>
> wg
>

Apparently it was.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 04 Jan 2009 22:44:38
From:
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
In article
<609379c3-d2a1-45d6-b7f7-6d699d4463ae@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com >,
gregorawe@hotmail.com () wrote:

>
> http://www.atpworldtour.com/3/en/rankings/entrysystem/default.asp
>
> However, it's not quite a case of doubling everyone's points, as
> there
> is quite a bit of movement in positions - e.g. Wawrinka has dropped
> 3
> spots to #16 and Simon moves up above Tsonga to #6.
>
> It seems that the points from the first week of last year have
> dropped
> off - presumably due to a shift in the calendar (e.g. last year's
> Doha/
> Chennai started on 29th Dec 2007 but only starts tomorrow 5th Jan
> this
> time). Nadal has lost 240 pts from Chennai but gained 50 from
> Rotterdam.
>

Plus, the points table is rather different - it's skewed much more heavily
toward rewarding title wins and, to a lesser extent, finals. Plus,
optional events are worth proportionately less. So the table should show
quite a few changes.

Waltz has been writing for Daily Tennis about how profound the changes are.

wg


  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 22:11:57
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article
> <609379c3-d2a1-45d6-b7f7-6d699d4463ae@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> gregorawe@hotmail.com () wrote:
>
>> http://www.atpworldtour.com/3/en/rankings/entrysystem/default.asp
>>
>> However, it's not quite a case of doubling everyone's points, as
>> there
>> is quite a bit of movement in positions - e.g. Wawrinka has dropped
>> 3
>> spots to #16 and Simon moves up above Tsonga to #6.
>>
>> It seems that the points from the first week of last year have
>> dropped
>> off - presumably due to a shift in the calendar (e.g. last year's
>> Doha/
>> Chennai started on 29th Dec 2007 but only starts tomorrow 5th Jan
>> this
>> time). Nadal has lost 240 pts from Chennai but gained 50 from
>> Rotterdam.
>>
>
> Plus, the points table is rather different - it's skewed much more heavily
> toward rewarding title wins and, to a lesser extent, finals. Plus,
> optional events are worth proportionately less. So the table should show
> quite a few changes.
>
> Waltz has been writing for Daily Tennis about how profound the changes are.
>
> wg


Ask Waltz if he's waiting for me to leave before he returns to rst?



   
Date: 05 Jan 2009 23:07:31
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: New (double) ranking points in operation ...
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:11:57 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au >
wrote:

>wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>> In article
>> <609379c3-d2a1-45d6-b7f7-6d699d4463ae@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
>> gregorawe@hotmail.com () wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.atpworldtour.com/3/en/rankings/entrysystem/default.asp
>>>
>>> However, it's not quite a case of doubling everyone's points, as
>>> there
>>> is quite a bit of movement in positions - e.g. Wawrinka has dropped
>>> 3
>>> spots to #16 and Simon moves up above Tsonga to #6.
>>>
>>> It seems that the points from the first week of last year have
>>> dropped
>>> off - presumably due to a shift in the calendar (e.g. last year's
>>> Doha/
>>> Chennai started on 29th Dec 2007 but only starts tomorrow 5th Jan
>>> this
>>> time). Nadal has lost 240 pts from Chennai but gained 50 from
>>> Rotterdam.
>>>
>>
>> Plus, the points table is rather different - it's skewed much more heavily
>> toward rewarding title wins and, to a lesser extent, finals. Plus,
>> optional events are worth proportionately less. So the table should show
>> quite a few changes.
>>
>> Waltz has been writing for Daily Tennis about how profound the changes are.
>>
>> wg
>
>
>Ask Waltz if he's waiting for me to leave before he returns to rst?

LOL. That was good.