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Date: 01 Feb 2009 21:08:45
From:
Subject: Problem with Federer's psyche...
from another forum:

"...However, I have to say Federer's outburst did reveal some serious
shortcomings in the Federer psyche. It is very clear, Federer derives
a huge amount of his self-worth by his success. This is fine and dandy
when Federer is winning everything but when he isn't it's not
surprising Federer struggles to cope. I think there is a real danger
Federer could end up suffering with severe depression when his career
ends.

Nadal in contrast, is an altogether much more mature individual. I
found some of the quotes from his winning interview very telling.
"When you win an important match, but you have to know before the
match who you are and after the match you have to know who you are,
too. You are the same, no?" This pretty much sums up Nadal's attitude
to the sport and it also goes a long way towards explaining why Nadal
is so mentally strong. Nadal's self worth is not connected to whether
or not he wins tennis matches. Nadal is okay with himself regardless.
All he asks of himself is that he gives it everything on the court. If
after that he loses, fine. Unlike Federer, Nadal's self esteem isn't
linked to whether or not he wins. This means Nadal is able to play
tennis far more fearlessly and with far less pressure on his shoulders
than does Federer. Nadal is better at focusing on each and every point
without distractions that probably any player of his generation and
probably a few generations before him. Unlike Federer, who has loads
of profession goals that he feels a need to achieve, Nadal's appears
to play with only one goal, simply to be the best he can be at that
moment. Is it any wonder Nadal is stronger than Federer mentally and
indeed emotionally. And after today's events it is very hard to see
this changing.

So yeah, I guess one can justify Roger's behavior, given that it
reflects that Roger is not the most emotionally mature of players, it
could hardly be considered surprising. But truthfully I do feel a bit
sorry for Federer, not because he lost but because clearly he has some
serious self esteem issues that will need to be addressed if he
doesn't want to escape serious depression down the road."

very well put.




 
Date: 02 Feb 2009 15:59:19
From: Shakes
Subject: Re: Problem with Federer's psyche...
On Feb 2, 1:17 pm, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com > wrote:
> On Feb 2, 12:08 am, tennis41...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > from another forum:
>
> > "...However, I have to say Federer's outburst did reveal some serious
> > shortcomings in the Federer psyche. It is very clear, Federer derives
> > a huge amount of his self-worth by his success. This is fine and dandy
> > when Federer is winning everything but when he isn't it's not
> > surprising Federer struggles to cope. I think there is a real danger
> > Federer could end up suffering with severe depression when his career
> > ends.
>
> > Nadal in contrast, is an altogether much more mature individual. I
> > found some of the quotes from his winning interview very telling.
> > "When you win an important match, but you have to know before the
> > match who you are and after the match you have to know who you are,
> > too. You are the same, no?" This pretty much sums up Nadal's attitude
> > to the sport and it also goes a long way towards explaining why Nadal
> > is so mentally strong. Nadal's self worth is not connected to whether
> > or not he wins tennis matches. Nadal is okay with himself regardless.
> > All he asks of himself is that he gives it everything on the court. If
> > after that he loses, fine. Unlike Federer, Nadal's self esteem isn't
> > linked to whether or not he wins. This means Nadal is able to play
> > tennis far more fearlessly and with far less pressure on his shoulders
> > than does Federer. Nadal is better at focusing on each and every point
> > without distractions that probably any player of his generation and
> > probably a few generations before him. Unlike Federer, who has loads
> > of profession goals that he feels a need to achieve, Nadal's appears
> > to play with only one goal, simply to be the best he can be at that
> > moment. Is it any wonder Nadal is stronger than Federer mentally and
> > indeed emotionally. And after today's events it is very hard to see
> > this changing.
>
> > So yeah, I guess one can justify Roger's behavior, given that it
> > reflects that Roger is not the most emotionally mature of players, it
> > could hardly be considered surprising. But truthfully I do feel a bit
> > sorry for Federer, not because he lost but because clearly he has some
> > serious self esteem issues that will need to be addressed if he
> > doesn't want to escape serious depression down the road."
>
> > very well put.
>
> Funny :)

Why is that ? Casting aside his exaggerated impressions about fed's
psyche, I thought nadal's approach was refreshing and i think that
does make a difference. So far, Nadal doesn't seem to be obsessed
about being a legend or this or that, and that takes off a huge
pressure from his shoulders. And he is trying to keep it that way.

However, now things might change. From now on, the media is going to
slowly jump on to nadal's bandwagon. Up till now, the media was still
focussed on fed because they thought fed is still the king (and fed
himself believed it) who was temporarily deposed. But sunday's final
will surely change their opinion and they will start writing about
nadal the way they used to write about fed. From now on, nadal will
have to answer all the questions that the media posed to fed in the
past 5 yrs. Nadal will now be considered a favourite in every match he
plays (like fed was for 4 yrs).

We will see how he handles that.


 
Date: 02 Feb 2009 13:17:30
From: wkhedr
Subject: Re: Problem with Federer's psyche...
On Feb 2, 12:08=A0am, tennis41...@yahoo.com wrote:
> from another forum:
>
> "...However, I have to say Federer's outburst did reveal some serious
> shortcomings in the Federer psyche. It is very clear, Federer derives
> a huge amount of his self-worth by his success. This is fine and dandy
> when Federer is winning everything but when he isn't it's not
> surprising Federer struggles to cope. I think there is a real danger
> Federer could end up suffering with severe depression when his career
> ends.
>
> Nadal in contrast, is an altogether much more mature individual. I
> found some of the quotes from his winning interview very telling.
> "When you win an important match, but you have to know before the
> match who you are and after the match you have to know who you are,
> too. You are the same, no?" This pretty much sums up Nadal's attitude
> to the sport and it also goes a long way towards explaining why Nadal
> is so mentally strong. Nadal's self worth is not connected to whether
> or not he wins tennis matches. Nadal is okay with himself regardless.
> All he asks of himself is that he gives it everything on the court. If
> after that he loses, fine. Unlike Federer, Nadal's self esteem isn't
> linked to whether or not he wins. This means Nadal is able to play
> tennis far more fearlessly and with far less pressure on his shoulders
> than does Federer. Nadal is better at focusing on each and every point
> without distractions that probably any player of his generation and
> probably a few generations before him. Unlike Federer, who has loads
> of profession goals that he feels a need to achieve, Nadal's appears
> to play with only one goal, simply to be the best he can be at that
> moment. Is it any wonder Nadal is stronger than Federer mentally and
> indeed emotionally. And after today's events it is very hard to see
> this changing.
>
> So yeah, I guess one can justify Roger's behavior, given that it
> reflects that Roger is not the most emotionally mature of players, it
> could hardly be considered surprising. But truthfully I do feel a bit
> sorry for Federer, not because he lost but because clearly he has some
> serious self esteem issues that will need to be addressed if he
> doesn't want to escape serious depression down the road."
>
> very well put.

Funny :)


 
Date: 02 Feb 2009 03:47:30
From:
Subject: Re: Problem with Federer's psyche...
On Feb 2, 6:32=A0am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> arnab.z@gmail wrote:
> > On Feb 2, 11:27 am, mzavag...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On 2 feb, 03:08, tennis41...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>> from another forum:
> >>> "...However, I have to say Federer's outburst did reveal some serious
> >>> shortcomings in the Federer psyche. It is very clear, Federer derives
> >>> a huge amount of his self-worth by his success. This is fine and dand=
y
> >>> when Federer is winning everything but when he isn't it's not
> >>> surprising Federer struggles to cope. I think there is a real danger
> >>> Federer could end up suffering with severe depression when his career
> >>> ends.
> >> I wrote something similar here a while ago.
>
> >> Quote:
>
> >> << I think that is now when Roger has a REAL aware that he cannot beat
> >> Nadal. And like everything in this world is a process, Roger is
> >> playing the psychological cycle known as "mourning." He has begun to
> >> leave the stage of denial (which has remained in he too long since
> >> Wimbledon ) and has entered the stage of depression. It is unfortunate
> >> but thus works the human mind. I think even that will (hopefully it
> >> does not) we will see a Roger a little time away from tennis. A
> >> psychological process as grief of "mourning" has to be solved. Man
> >> cannot always be crying as a child, at least in public. >>
>
> >> Enjoy.
>
> > So what is Roger mourning for? Why is he so depressed? That he will
> > never beat Rafa again? Poor Roger. If only he got the clue, gave it
> > all up and quit the game.
>
> Roger is demoralized because he knows these constant beat downs from
> Rafa have vetoed his 'absolute goat' claims. =A0There is a question
> whether Fed is best in his own era that needs to be addressed before
> goat is considered. =A0This isn't Sampras losing in 3rd set t/b's to
> Krajicek (a nobody in historical terms) in tune-ups - =A0he's losing huge
> slam finals to the same guy across all 3 surfaces - a guy who looks to
> have the makings of a tier 1 great himself.
>
> His tears are for this loss of goat recognition. =A0It must hurt a lot.- =
Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have to say I agree. Fed no doubt thought of himself as a special
athlete who would be able to rise above
any challenge. But now he's found a challenge that he realizes he
can't rise above, and that is very painful.


 
Date: 02 Feb 2009 03:14:12
From: Fortylove
Subject: Re: Problem with Federer's psyche...
On Feb 2, 2:45=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 2, 11:27=A0am, mzavag...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2 feb, 03:08, tennis41...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > from another forum:
>
> > > "...However, I have to say Federer's outburst did reveal some serious
> > > shortcomings in the Federer psyche. It is very clear, Federer derives
> > > a huge amount of his self-worth by his success. This is fine and dand=
y
> > > when Federer is winning everything but when he isn't it's not
> > > surprising Federer struggles to cope. I think there is a real danger
> > > Federer could end up suffering with severe depression when his career
> > > ends.
>
> > I wrote something similar here a while ago.
>
> > Quote:
>
> > << I think that is now when Roger has a REAL aware that he cannot beat
> > Nadal. And like everything in this world is a process, Roger is
> > playing the psychological cycle known as "mourning." He has begun to
> > leave the stage of denial (which has remained in he too long since
> > Wimbledon ) and has entered the stage of depression. It is unfortunate
> > but thus works the human mind. I think even that will (hopefully it
> > does not) we will see a Roger a little time away from tennis. A
> > psychological process as grief of "mourning" has to be solved. Man
> > cannot always be crying as a child, at least in public. >>
>
> > Enjoy.
>
> So what is Roger mourning for? Why is he so depressed? That he will
> never beat Rafa again? Poor Roger. If only he got the clue, gave it
> all up and quit the game.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

He has made himself in over-pressure. From now on, Federer truly
believed he's number 2, that relieves him. So easy. Number 2 has a
lot more interested. At least you have a target and in the world's
point of view, number 2 is not a bad ranking.


 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 22:45:53
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Problem with Federer's psyche...
On Feb 2, 11:27=A0am, mzavag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 2 feb, 03:08, tennis41...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > from another forum:
>
> > "...However, I have to say Federer's outburst did reveal some serious
> > shortcomings in the Federer psyche. It is very clear, Federer derives
> > a huge amount of his self-worth by his success. This is fine and dandy
> > when Federer is winning everything but when he isn't it's not
> > surprising Federer struggles to cope. I think there is a real danger
> > Federer could end up suffering with severe depression when his career
> > ends.
>
> I wrote something similar here a while ago.
>
> Quote:
>
> << I think that is now when Roger has a REAL aware that he cannot beat
> Nadal. And like everything in this world is a process, Roger is
> playing the psychological cycle known as "mourning." He has begun to
> leave the stage of denial (which has remained in he too long since
> Wimbledon ) and has entered the stage of depression. It is unfortunate
> but thus works the human mind. I think even that will (hopefully it
> does not) we will see a Roger a little time away from tennis. A
> psychological process as grief of "mourning" has to be solved. Man
> cannot always be crying as a child, at least in public. >>
>
> Enjoy.

So what is Roger mourning for? Why is he so depressed? That he will
never beat Rafa again? Poor Roger. If only he got the clue, gave it
all up and quit the game.


  
Date: 02 Feb 2009 22:32:02
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Problem with Federer's psyche...
arnab.z@gmail wrote:
> On Feb 2, 11:27 am, mzavag...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 2 feb, 03:08, tennis41...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> from another forum:
>>> "...However, I have to say Federer's outburst did reveal some serious
>>> shortcomings in the Federer psyche. It is very clear, Federer derives
>>> a huge amount of his self-worth by his success. This is fine and dandy
>>> when Federer is winning everything but when he isn't it's not
>>> surprising Federer struggles to cope. I think there is a real danger
>>> Federer could end up suffering with severe depression when his career
>>> ends.
>> I wrote something similar here a while ago.
>>
>> Quote:
>>
>> << I think that is now when Roger has a REAL aware that he cannot beat
>> Nadal. And like everything in this world is a process, Roger is
>> playing the psychological cycle known as "mourning." He has begun to
>> leave the stage of denial (which has remained in he too long since
>> Wimbledon ) and has entered the stage of depression. It is unfortunate
>> but thus works the human mind. I think even that will (hopefully it
>> does not) we will see a Roger a little time away from tennis. A
>> psychological process as grief of "mourning" has to be solved. Man
>> cannot always be crying as a child, at least in public. >>
>>
>> Enjoy.
>
> So what is Roger mourning for? Why is he so depressed? That he will
> never beat Rafa again? Poor Roger. If only he got the clue, gave it
> all up and quit the game.


Roger is demoralized because he knows these constant beat downs from
Rafa have vetoed his 'absolute goat' claims. There is a question
whether Fed is best in his own era that needs to be addressed before
goat is considered. This isn't Sampras losing in 3rd set t/b's to
Krajicek (a nobody in historical terms) in tune-ups - he's losing huge
slam finals to the same guy across all 3 surfaces - a guy who looks to
have the makings of a tier 1 great himself.

His tears are for this loss of goat recognition. It must hurt a lot.



 
Date: 02 Feb 2009 06:49:26
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Problem with Federer's psyche...

<tennis41ife@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:aa2bfda1-d889-4c0f-870f-fc2ed20d09d2@p37g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> from another forum:
>
> "...However, I have to say Federer's outburst did reveal some serious
> shortcomings in the Federer psyche. It is very clear, Federer derives
> a huge amount of his self-worth by his success. This is fine and dandy
> when Federer is winning everything but when he isn't it's not
> surprising Federer struggles to cope. I think there is a real danger
> Federer could end up suffering with severe depression when his career
> ends.
>
> Nadal in contrast, is an altogether much more mature individual. I
> found some of the quotes from his winning interview very telling.
> "When you win an important match, but you have to know before the
> match who you are and after the match you have to know who you are,
> too. You are the same, no?" This pretty much sums up Nadal's attitude
> to the sport and it also goes a long way towards explaining why Nadal
> is so mentally strong. Nadal's self worth is not connected to whether
> or not he wins tennis matches. Nadal is okay with himself regardless.
> All he asks of himself is that he gives it everything on the court. If
> after that he loses, fine. Unlike Federer, Nadal's self esteem isn't
> linked to whether or not he wins. This means Nadal is able to play
> tennis far more fearlessly and with far less pressure on his shoulders
> than does Federer. Nadal is better at focusing on each and every point
> without distractions that probably any player of his generation and
> probably a few generations before him. Unlike Federer, who has loads
> of profession goals that he feels a need to achieve, Nadal's appears
> to play with only one goal, simply to be the best he can be at that
> moment. Is it any wonder Nadal is stronger than Federer mentally and
> indeed emotionally. And after today's events it is very hard to see
> this changing.
>
> So yeah, I guess one can justify Roger's behavior, given that it
> reflects that Roger is not the most emotionally mature of players, it
> could hardly be considered surprising. But truthfully I do feel a bit
> sorry for Federer, not because he lost but because clearly he has some
> serious self esteem issues that will need to be addressed if he
> doesn't want to escape serious depression down the road."
>
> very well put.


Agreed, I almost felt sorry him as well but then I realized how stupid it
would be to sorry someone who has all what he has. :)

I'd only like to add though, that Federer isn't a regular atp pro, so that
you could say "win or lose a match doesn't matter", like it wouldn't matter
in cases of Blake, Wawrinka etc.
He is chasing history after all. If Nadal ever finds himself if that positon
he may handle it better than Federer, but even he won't be completely
unaffected.

Back to the point of the thread it's clear Nadal has healthier approach to
all things in life, however I don't think you can learn that, certainly not
in Federer's age and after all he's achieved. He's completely formed by now.

He's been that ever since, his temparement, breaking racquets in younger
age, yelling, crying ater he lost Basel finale (now that's has nothing to do
with greatness - it's just the thing that this guy wrote about -selfesteem
issued).
Federer adminet himself how he learned to control his emotions through
years. Bit like Borg.
It all explodes eventually.

I personally preffer mindests of guys eg like Rafa who is just like that,
calm. It's him. Didn't have to surpress anything.
Sampras was similar.

It's a lot easier when you don't have to fight your own demons, that's for
sure.



Maybe Federer should start aranging bottles as well to find some inner peace
with himself? :)




  
Date: 02 Feb 2009 06:31:09
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Problem with Federer's psyche...
"*skriptis" <skriptis@post.t-com.hr > wrote in message
news:gm61hb$jpb$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
>
>
> Maybe Federer should start aranging bottles as well to find some inner
> peace with himself? :)
>
>


He definitely has to find an inner peace, because this is killing him like
he said.



 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 21:27:49
From:
Subject: Re: Problem with Federer's psyche...
On 2 feb, 03:08, tennis41...@yahoo.com wrote:

> from another forum:
>
> "...However, I have to say Federer's outburst did reveal some serious
> shortcomings in the Federer psyche. It is very clear, Federer derives
> a huge amount of his self-worth by his success. This is fine and dandy
> when Federer is winning everything but when he isn't it's not
> surprising Federer struggles to cope. I think there is a real danger
> Federer could end up suffering with severe depression when his career
> ends.

I wrote something similar here a while ago.

Quote:

<< I think that is now when Roger has a REAL aware that he cannot beat
Nadal. And like everything in this world is a process, Roger is
playing the psychological cycle known as "mourning." He has begun to
leave the stage of denial (which has remained in he too long since
Wimbledon ) and has entered the stage of depression. It is unfortunate
but thus works the human mind. I think even that will (hopefully it
does not) we will see a Roger a little time away from tennis. A
psychological process as grief of "mourning" has to be solved. Man
cannot always be crying as a child, at least in public. >>

Enjoy.