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Date: 24 Jan 2009 11:51:30
From: PeteWasLucky
Subject: Safin's double fault, help explain the rule
Safin's right foot was in the wrong court before tossing the ball. He
began his service motion, sohe took step forward, moving the right
foot one step forward (moving it to the right court), then tossing the
ball and then hitting it.

So what does the rule say? Does it matter where my foot is before
tossing the ball?




 
Date: 24 Jan 2009 14:51:43
From: PeteWasLucky
Subject: Re: Safin's double fault, help explain the rule
On Jan 24, 5:45=A0pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided > wrote:
> PeteWasLucky wrote:
> > Safin's right foot was in the wrong court before tossing the ball.
>
> It looked like it was, but I suppose that technically the thickness of th=
e
> centre line means that you can foot-fault but still be in the right court=
.
>
> > He
> > began his service motion, sohe =A0took step forward, moving the right
> > foot one step forward (moving it to the right court), then tossing the
> > ball and then hitting it.
>
> > So what does the rule say? Does it matter where my foot is before
> > tossing the ball?
>
> According to the commentators both feet have to be on the correct side of=
the
> centre line from when the service motion begins, so before tossing the ba=
ll.
> Commentators on different channels both agreed that it was a foot fault, =
though
> not everyone agrees that the officials should be such sticklers.

It's a rule, and lineman was asked to execute it. If it's ignored,
then what would stop players from serving intentionally from the wrong
side?!


  
Date: 25 Jan 2009 00:39:37
From: John Doe
Subject: Re: Safin's double fault, help explain the rule
PeteWasLucky <Waleed.Khedr@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 24, 5:45 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:

>> not everyone agrees that the officials should be such sticklers.
>
> It's a rule, and lineman was asked to execute it. If it's ignored,
> then what would stop players from serving intentionally from the
> wrong side?!

Maybe Safin thinks that being one quarter of an inch into the foul
zone when serving is going to help beat Roger Federer. Even Safin
has the brains to tell whether his feet are in the correct court
before serving, it is not rocket science.


   
Date: 25 Jan 2009 02:11:18
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: Safin's double fault, help explain the rule
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:39:37 GMT, John Doe <jdoe@usenetlove.invalid >
wrote:

>PeteWasLucky <Waleed.Khedr@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 24, 5:45 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
>
>>> not everyone agrees that the officials should be such sticklers.
>>
>> It's a rule, and lineman was asked to execute it. If it's ignored,
>> then what would stop players from serving intentionally from the
>> wrong side?!
>
>Maybe Safin thinks that being one quarter of an inch into the foul
>zone when serving is going to help beat Roger Federer. Even Safin
>has the brains to tell whether his feet are in the correct court
>before serving, it is not rocket science.


just like Rafa knows when he is perpetually delaying the game.


  
Date: 25 Jan 2009 10:01:09
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Safin's double fault, help explain the rule
PeteWasLucky wrote:
> On Jan 24, 5:45 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
>> PeteWasLucky wrote:
>>> Safin's right foot was in the wrong court before tossing the ball.
>>
>> It looked like it was, but I suppose that technically the thickness
>> of the centre line means that you can foot-fault but still be in the
>> right court.
>>
>>> He
>>> began his service motion, sohe took step forward, moving the right
>>> foot one step forward (moving it to the right court), then tossing
>>> the ball and then hitting it.
>>
>>> So what does the rule say? Does it matter where my foot is before
>>> tossing the ball?
>>
>> According to the commentators both feet have to be on the correct
>> side of the centre line from when the service motion begins, so
>> before tossing the ball. Commentators on different channels both
>> agreed that it was a foot fault, though not everyone agrees that the
>> officials should be such sticklers.
>
> It's a rule, and lineman was asked to execute it. If it's ignored,
> then what would stop players from serving intentionally from the wrong
> side?!

Wally Masur said that when he was playing the linesman would have a word to the
umpire and the umpire would have a word to Wally that he was getting very close
to foot-faulting, so he would know to fix it before it happened. Someone
suggested that you should get a warning if you do it once out of the blue
(though I'd agree with that only if it's a marginal call; a big foot-fault has
to be called). Anything to prevent the players breaking the rules and having a
match marred by a foot-fault at 1-3 in a tie-breaker. Barbara Schett disagreed.
She said that it was there, so call it.





 
Date: 25 Jan 2009 09:45:31
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Safin's double fault, help explain the rule
PeteWasLucky wrote:
> Safin's right foot was in the wrong court before tossing the ball.

It looked like it was, but I suppose that technically the thickness of the
centre line means that you can foot-fault but still be in the right court.

> He
> began his service motion, sohe took step forward, moving the right
> foot one step forward (moving it to the right court), then tossing the
> ball and then hitting it.
>
> So what does the rule say? Does it matter where my foot is before
> tossing the ball?

According to the commentators both feet have to be on the correct side of the
centre line from when the service motion begins, so before tossing the ball.
Commentators on different channels both agreed that it was a foot fault, though
not everyone agrees that the officials should be such sticklers.





  
Date: 25 Jan 2009 00:34:12
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Safin's double fault, help explain the rule
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:45:31 +1100, "DavidW" <no@email.provided > wrote:

>According to the commentators both feet have to be on the correct side of the
>centre line from when the service motion begins, so before tossing the ball.

Not just before tossing the ball. The serve must begin with the feet at rest.
That resting position, and every subsequent position the feet assume during the
service motion, must be on the correct side of the centerline.

So your feet are at rest. Your hands and body assume some regular starting
point, also (usually) momentarily at rest. The instant either one of your hands
move, or a foot moves, or your body leans or shifts from that starting position,
is the start of the service.

Most of the time officials will casually warn a player when he/she is about to
be called on a minor violation, but sometimes they just ignore it, since the
center linesman is on the opposite end of the court.

Watch Safina some time. She violates this rule fairly frequently serving to the
deuce court, stepping back with her right foot onto the extension of the
centerline. She did so several times against Cornet tonight.

I've had right-handed opponents serving to the ad court cross their right feet
completely over the centerline and touch down during their service motion, and
get upset when called on it. There are a lot of casual cheats in our game.

-- Larry


   
Date: 25 Jan 2009 18:14:17
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Safin's double fault, help explain the rule
pltrgyst wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:45:31 +1100, "DavidW" <no@email.provided>
> wrote:
>
>> According to the commentators both feet have to be on the correct
>> side of the centre line from when the service motion begins, so
>> before tossing the ball.
>
> Not just before tossing the ball. The serve must begin with the feet
> at rest. That resting position, and every subsequent position the
> feet assume during the service motion, must be on the correct side of
> the centerline.
>
> So your feet are at rest. Your hands and body assume some regular
> starting point, also (usually) momentarily at rest. The instant
> either one of your hands move, or a foot moves, or your body leans or
> shifts from that starting position, is the start of the service.

Thanks for clarifying.

> Most of the time officials will casually warn a player when he/she is
> about to be called on a minor violation, but sometimes they just
> ignore it, since the center linesman is on the opposite end of the
> court.
>
> Watch Safina some time. She violates this rule fairly frequently
> serving to the deuce court, stepping back with her right foot onto
> the extension of the centerline. She did so several times against
> Cornet tonight.

They should have got onto that then. I wanted Cornet to win. A foot-fault call
at an opportune time deep in the 3rd would have been of great assistance.

> I've had right-handed opponents serving to the ad court cross their
> right feet completely over the centerline and touch down during their
> service motion, and get upset when called on it. There are a lot of
> casual cheats in our game.





  
Date: 25 Jan 2009 02:10:25
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: Safin's double fault, help explain the rule
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:45:31 +1100, "DavidW" <no@email.provided >
wrote:

>PeteWasLucky wrote:
>> Safin's right foot was in the wrong court before tossing the ball.
>
>It looked like it was, but I suppose that technically the thickness of the
>centre line means that you can foot-fault but still be in the right court.
>
>> He
>> began his service motion, sohe took step forward, moving the right
>> foot one step forward (moving it to the right court), then tossing the
>> ball and then hitting it.
>>
>> So what does the rule say? Does it matter where my foot is before
>> tossing the ball?
>
>According to the commentators both feet have to be on the correct side of the
>centre line from when the service motion begins, so before tossing the ball.
>Commentators on different channels both agreed that it was a foot fault, though
>not everyone agrees that the officials should be such sticklers.
>
>


sure let em cheat like Rafa right ? pretty soon they will be serving
from the doubles line.

this is called "cheat creep" and it must be stopped because it breeds
"creep cheats" like rafa.