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Date: 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12
From: John P
Subject: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
from the January 17 NY Times:

Seles Is Elected to Hall of Fame

Monica Seles, who changed women's tennis with her two-handed strokes
and two-tone grunts that belied her gentle demeanor, was elected to the
International Tennis Hall of Fame on Thursday.
Seles, 35, was No. 1 for 178 weeks and won nine Grand Slam titles -
four at the Australian Open, three at the French Open, and two at the
United States Open. But she captured only one after being stabbed
during a changeover in 1993 in Hamburg, Germany, forcing her to leave
the game for more than two years.
After her return in 1995, she reached the final of the United States
Open and won the next major, the 1996 Australian Open.
Her induction capped a career that had "a lot of highs and a lot of
lows," she said on a conference call.
Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion;
Donald Dell, a co-founder of ProServ, an influential sports management
company, and the ATP; and the late Robert Johnson, who fostered the
integration of tennis.





 
Date: 18 Jan 2009 05:48:34
From: GOAT
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Jan 18, 1:19=A0pm, Davide Tosi <clearblue...@libero.it > wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:35:40 -0500, pltrgyst
>
> <pltrg...@spamlessxhost.org> wrote:
> >On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JT...@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
>
> >> =A0 Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...
>
> >I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit e=
veryone
> >who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>
> >But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.
>
> This is good news, because it means that probably in the next few
> years the great Adriano Panatta, winner of the 1976 RG, will be
> inducted too.
> Adriano should really be in the HOF, he was such a great talent and a
> huge inspiration for many young =A0people to play tennis. The only time
> ever in which tennis has been a popular sport in Italy was when
> Adriano played at pro level.
> This kind of factor should be kept in strong consideration when
> deciding about new HOF members. An american single-slam winner usually
> has no impact in terms of making the game more popular, on the other
> hand a slam winner from a non-traditional tennis country has great
> relevance in terms of enlarging the fan base.

Panatta should get in simply because no one else ever beat Borg at the
French and he did it twice.


  
Date: 18 Jan 2009 14:14:04
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:48:34 -0800 (PST), GOAT
<thetruetennisgoat@hotmail.co.uk > wrote:

>On Jan 18, 1:19 pm, Davide Tosi <clearblue...@libero.it> wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:35:40 -0500, pltrgyst
>>
>> <pltrg...@spamlessxhost.org> wrote:
>> >On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JT...@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
>>
>> >>   Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...
>>
>> >I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit everyone
>> >who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>>
>> >But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.
>>
>> This is good news, because it means that probably in the next few
>> years the great Adriano Panatta, winner of the 1976 RG, will be
>> inducted too.
>> Adriano should really be in the HOF, he was such a great talent and a
>> huge inspiration for many young  people to play tennis. The only time
>> ever in which tennis has been a popular sport in Italy was when
>> Adriano played at pro level.
>> This kind of factor should be kept in strong consideration when
>> deciding about new HOF members. An american single-slam winner usually
>> has no impact in terms of making the game more popular, on the other
>> hand a slam winner from a non-traditional tennis country has great
>> relevance in terms of enlarging the fan base.
>
>Panatta should get in simply because no one else ever beat Borg at the
>French and he did it twice.


I agree.


 
Date: 18 Jan 2009 05:26:35
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Jan 17, 12:50=A0pm, JT...@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
> from the January 17 NY Times:
>
> Seles Is Elected to Hall of Fame

Great!





 
Date: 17 Jan 2009 16:34:33
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Jan 17, 9:35=A0pm, pltrgyst <pltrg...@spamlessxhost.org > wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JT...@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
> > =A0 Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...
>
> I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit ev=
eryone
> who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>
> But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.
>
> -- Larry

As far as I know they have to elect two players each year. That means
they presumably start running out of players with lots of slams, so
have to drop the threshold to have players to choose from.

Why not just elect people as and when they become eligible?

I just noticed that Pam Shriver is in the HOF!!!!

In the 1980s they were electing handfuls of players each year, so all
of the all-time greats were already in. Select "Induction Year" from
the link below and click "Go" to see the inductees by year:

http://www.tennisfame.com/famer.aspx?pgID=3D867



  
Date: 18 Jan 2009 13:56:48
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
In article
<a9af0359-639e-4996-beb1-5e6e8a87969d@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com >,
gregorawe@hotmail.com () wrote:
>
> Why not just elect people as and when they become eligible?

That makes more sense, I think.

>
> I just noticed that Pam Shriver is in the HOF!!!!

Well, of course she is! She has 21 Grand Slam doubles titles and a mixed
GS title, she's an Olympic gold medallist in doubles with Zina Garrison;
she was a Fed Cup stalwart, and shares with Navratilova the record for the
longest streak in tennis - 109 consecutive match wins from 1983 to 1985,
including a double Grand Slam. Why on earth would anyone hesitate for a
minute? She also served on the WTA and USTA boards, runs one of the most
successful annual tennis charity fundraisers, and has spent more than ten
years as an extremely good commentator, so it's not like she had her
career and then vanished - she's arguably one of the better ambassadors
the game has.

wg


   
Date: 19 Jan 2009 14:58:44
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article
> <a9af0359-639e-4996-beb1-5e6e8a87969d@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> gregorawe@hotmail.com () wrote:
>> Why not just elect people as and when they become eligible?
>
> That makes more sense, I think.
>
>> I just noticed that Pam Shriver is in the HOF!!!!
>
> Well, of course she is! She has 21 Grand Slam doubles titles and a mixed
> GS title, she's an Olympic gold medallist in doubles with Zina Garrison;
> she was a Fed Cup stalwart, and shares with Navratilova the record for the
> longest streak in tennis - 109 consecutive match wins from 1983 to 1985,
> including a double Grand Slam. Why on earth would anyone hesitate for a
> minute? She also served on the WTA and USTA boards, runs one of the most
> successful annual tennis charity fundraisers, and has spent more than ten
> years as an extremely good commentator, so it's not like she had her
> career and then vanished - she's arguably one of the better ambassadors
> the game has.
>
> wg


She reached USO final at 16 & gave Evert a tough 75 64 final, after
beating Navratilova - & then never came close to making a slam final again.



    
Date: 19 Jan 2009 15:17:13
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
Whisper wrote:
> wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>> In article
>> <a9af0359-639e-4996-beb1-5e6e8a87969d@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
>> gregorawe@hotmail.com () wrote:
>>> Why not just elect people as and when they become eligible?
>>
>> That makes more sense, I think.
>>
>>> I just noticed that Pam Shriver is in the HOF!!!!
>>
>> Well, of course she is! She has 21 Grand Slam doubles titles and a
>> mixed GS title, she's an Olympic gold medallist in doubles with Zina
>> Garrison; she was a Fed Cup stalwart, and shares with Navratilova
>> the record for the longest streak in tennis - 109 consecutive match
>> wins from 1983 to 1985, including a double Grand Slam. Why on earth
>> would anyone hesitate for a minute? She also served on the WTA and
>> USTA boards, runs one of the most successful annual tennis charity
>> fundraisers, and has spent more than ten years as an extremely good
>> commentator, so it's not like she had her career and then vanished -
>> she's arguably one of the better ambassadors the game has.
>>
>> wg
>
>
> She reached USO final at 16 & gave Evert a tough 75 64 final, after
> beating Navratilova - & then never came close to making a slam final
> again.

Was Steffi Graf's semi-final whipping girl at Wimbledon for a couple of years
too. That's how I remember her.





 
Date: 17 Jan 2009 16:35:40
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JTPDC@webtv.net (John P) wrote:

> Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...

I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit everyone
who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.

But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.

-- Larry


  
Date: 18 Jan 2009 13:56:46
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
In article <jmj4n4p1q36ohvouq6b7mojv53ka2s046a@4ax.com >,
pltrgyst@spamlessxhost.org (pltrgyst) wrote:

>
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JTPDC@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
>
> > Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open
> > champion...
>
> I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to
> admit everyone
> who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>
> But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy
> career.

Has he done a lot of other stuff for the game besides that? Hasn't he done
a lot of coaching? The ATP site mentions coaching for Spain and
Switzerland, and has been a TV commentator for two decades. I don't know,
maybe they just thought they were light on Spanish speakers.

wg


   
Date: 18 Jan 2009 12:35:56
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Jan 18, 3:13=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy
> > > career.
>
> > Has he done a lot of other stuff for the game besides that? Hasn't he d=
one
> > a lot of coaching? The ATP site mentions coaching for Spain and
> > Switzerland, and has been a TV commentator for two decades. I don't kno=
w,
> > maybe they just thought they were light on Spanish speakers.
>
> > wg
>
> I don't see why off-court activities should have much of an impact -
> is it not really about greatness of a career on the courts?

I think it should count in borderline cases - they do induct people
who aren't notable for their playing, but made a significant
contribution to the sport, like Bud Collins. Someone like Nick
Bollettieri probably belongs there as well.

That said, Gimeno strikes me as really scraping the bottom of the
barrel, in terms of his HOF worthiness.

Nemanja


    
Date: 18 Jan 2009 18:38:35
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
In article
<6b587344-080c-4c58-bc7d-ceefda9ce6b5@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com >,
nemanja.dundjerovic@discreet.com () wrote:


> I think it should count in borderline cases - they do induct people
> who aren't notable for their playing, but made a significant
> contribution to the sport, like Bud Collins. Someone like Nick
> Bollettieri probably belongs there as well.

Exactly. Although I wish they'd put in a Hall of Shame wing for
Bollettieri. Not that he's evil or anything, but his brand of coaching has
produced a hellishly monocultural playing style.

wg



     
Date: 19 Jan 2009 16:40:53
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article
> <6b587344-080c-4c58-bc7d-ceefda9ce6b5@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
> nemanja.dundjerovic@discreet.com () wrote:
>
>
>> I think it should count in borderline cases - they do induct people
>> who aren't notable for their playing, but made a significant
>> contribution to the sport, like Bud Collins. Someone like Nick
>> Bollettieri probably belongs there as well.
>
> Exactly. Although I wish they'd put in a Hall of Shame wing for
> Bollettieri. Not that he's evil or anything, but his brand of coaching has
> produced a hellishly monocultural playing style.
>
> wg
>


Agreed.



     
Date: 19 Jan 2009 01:01:22
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:38:35 -0600, wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

>In article
><6b587344-080c-4c58-bc7d-ceefda9ce6b5@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
>nemanja.dundjerovic@discreet.com () wrote:
>
>
>> I think it should count in borderline cases - they do induct people
>> who aren't notable for their playing, but made a significant
>> contribution to the sport, like Bud Collins. Someone like Nick
>> Bollettieri probably belongs there as well.
>
>Exactly. Although I wish they'd put in a Hall of Shame wing for
>Bollettieri. Not that he's evil or anything, but his brand of coaching has
>produced a hellishly monocultural playing style.
>
>wg


Maybe we should start an rst hall of fame ?


      
Date: 19 Jan 2009 14:55:32
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
In article <66k7n4p82sdk4vuvkgpej226i4b3i9as2f@4ax.com >,
the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com (Dave Hazelwood) wrote:

>
> Maybe we should start an rst hall of fame ?

I intended to start a Hall of Shame, and then like with so many other
things I got distracted.

wg


   
Date: 18 Jan 2009 12:13:26
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
>
> > But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy
> > career.
>
> Has he done a lot of other stuff for the game besides that? Hasn't he done
> a lot of coaching? The ATP site mentions coaching for Spain and
> Switzerland, and has been a TV commentator for two decades. I don't know,
> maybe they just thought they were light on Spanish speakers.
>
> wg

I don't see why off-court activities should have much of an impact -
is it not really about greatness of a career on the courts?



    
Date: 18 Jan 2009 16:42:18
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Jan 19, 12:38=A0am, wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article
> <26be54e5-70cc-420c-9ee2-3647022f3...@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> gregor...@hotmail.com () wrote:
>
> > I don't see why off-court activities should have much of an impact -
> > is it not really about greatness of a career on the courts?
>
> That depends. Bud Collins will be in the HoF for basically inventing
> tennis on TV in the US. There's more than one section in the HoF.
>

Yes, but surely Gimeno is getting into the main tennis players
section?



    
Date: 18 Jan 2009 18:38:35
From:
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
In article
<26be54e5-70cc-420c-9ee2-3647022f3d51@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com >,
gregorawe@hotmail.com () wrote:

>
> I don't see why off-court activities should have much of an impact -
> is it not really about greatness of a career on the courts?
>

That depends. Bud Collins will be in the HoF for basically inventing
tennis on TV in the US. There's more than one section in the HoF.

wg


  
Date: 18 Jan 2009 14:19:12
From: Davide Tosi
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:35:40 -0500, pltrgyst
<pltrgyst@spamlessxhost.org > wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JTPDC@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
>
>> Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...
>
>I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit everyone
>who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>
>But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.

This is good news, because it means that probably in the next few
years the great Adriano Panatta, winner of the 1976 RG, will be
inducted too.
Adriano should really be in the HOF, he was such a great talent and a
huge inspiration for many young people to play tennis. The only time
ever in which tennis has been a popular sport in Italy was when
Adriano played at pro level.
This kind of factor should be kept in strong consideration when
deciding about new HOF members. An american single-slam winner usually
has no impact in terms of making the game more popular, on the other
hand a slam winner from a non-traditional tennis country has great
relevance in terms of enlarging the fan base.


   
Date: 18 Jan 2009 10:50:42
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:19:12 +0100, Davide Tosi <clearbluesky@libero.it > wrote:

>>I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit everyone
>>who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>>
>>But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.
>
>This is good news, because it means that probably in the next few
>years the great Adriano Panatta, winner of the 1976 RG, will be
>inducted too.
>Adriano should really be in the HOF, he was such a great talent and a
>huge inspiration for many young people to play tennis. The only time
>ever in which tennis has been a popular sport in Italy was when
>Adriano played at pro level.
>This kind of factor should be kept in strong consideration when
>deciding about new HOF members. An american single-slam winner usually
>has no impact in terms of making the game more popular, on the other
>hand a slam winner from a non-traditional tennis country has great
>relevance in terms of enlarging the fan base.

I would consider that a strong reason for each nation to have its own tennis
hall of fame, but not a strong argument for admission to the primary, world-wide
sport hall of fame.

-- Larry


  
Date: 18 Jan 2009 17:31:35
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
pltrgyst wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JTPDC@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
>
>> Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...
>
> I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit everyone
> who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>
> But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.
>
> -- Larry


The standard should be 20 points on 7543 scale.



   
Date: 18 Jan 2009 07:09:00
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
"Whisper" <beaver999@ozemail.com.au > wrote in message
news:4972cccb$0$9507$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> pltrgyst wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JTPDC@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
>>
>>> Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...
>>
>> I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit
>> everyone
>> who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>>
>> But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.
>>
>> -- Larry
>
>
> The standard should be 20 points on 7543 scale.
>


Which Seles easily meets.



  
Date: 17 Jan 2009 22:18:30
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
"pltrgyst" <pltrgyst@spamlessxhost.org > wrote in message
news:jmj4n4p1q36ohvouq6b7mojv53ka2s046a@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JTPDC@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
>
>> Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...
>
> I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit
> everyone
> who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>
> But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.
>
> -- Larry


More proof that the tennis HOF is a joke.... I guess Nole is already a HOFer
by this criteria!



   
Date: 18 Jan 2009 00:33:37
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:18:30 GMT, "Stapler" <d@d.com > wrote:

>"pltrgyst" <pltrgyst@spamlessxhost.org> wrote in message
>news:jmj4n4p1q36ohvouq6b7mojv53ka2s046a@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JTPDC@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
>>
>>> Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...
>>
>> I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit
>> everyone
>> who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>>
>> But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.
>>
>> -- Larry
>
>
>More proof that the tennis HOF is a joke.... I guess Nole is already a HOFer
>by this criteria!

Murray too. He will be elected to Hall of Fame in 2023, because he was
a big favourite at AO 2009.


    
Date: 17 Jan 2009 22:42:02
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
"Sakari Lund" <sakari.lund@welho.com > wrote in message
news:93n4n4tllglnhg5cahpmc74134jgjuf7k2@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:18:30 GMT, "Stapler" <d@d.com> wrote:
>
>>"pltrgyst" <pltrgyst@spamlessxhost.org> wrote in message
>>news:jmj4n4p1q36ohvouq6b7mojv53ka2s046a@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:50:12 -0500, JTPDC@webtv.net (John P) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also elected were Andres Gimeno, the 1972 French Open champion...
>>>
>>> I've been struggling to understand this one. If they're going to admit
>>> everyone
>>> who has ever won a GS, fine. Just say so.
>>>
>>> But I never thought of Gimeno as having a hall-of-fame-worthy career.
>>>
>>> -- Larry
>>
>>
>>More proof that the tennis HOF is a joke.... I guess Nole is already a
>>HOFer
>>by this criteria!
>
> Murray too. He will be elected to Hall of Fame in 2023, because he was
> a big favourite at AO 2009.


Well there is an informal HOF where the true greats are. We all know who
they are.



     
Date: 18 Jan 2009 13:51:16
From: KNIFE!
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
Seles would be GOAT without the KNIFING


      
Date: 18 Jan 2009 14:14:19
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: Seles elected to Hall of Fame
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:51:16 +0000, KNIFE! <rec.sport.tennis@mail.com >
wrote:

>Seles would be GOAT without the KNIFING


what knifing ?