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Date: 18 Dec 2008 11:26:46
From: Raja
Subject: Steffi Graf to Seles
"I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html

That is some class.




 
Date: 29 Dec 2008 23:10:24
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 29, 9:25=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> Fan wrote:
> > On Dec 29, 5:21 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >> Fan wrote:
> >>> On Dec 28, 9:38 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >>>> Fan wrote:
> >>>>> On Dec 28, 5:46 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >>>>>> TT wrote:
> >>>>>>> Fan wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Fan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wro=
te:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE=
.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to S=
TOP HER
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do =
you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all need?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit =
that =A0
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only=
that,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that time too.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious t=
hings
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened, eg;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 2=
1 when
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> returned after all);
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & b=
arely
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lose
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even th=
ough
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak sugge=
sts
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she woulda
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens =
& it's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like=
them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would ha=
ve
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age =
21-29).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in =
those 2
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Max
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousan=
d times
> >>>>>>>>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
> >>>>>>>>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatn=
ess of
> >>>>>>>>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime=
in with
> >>>>>>>>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab w=
ound,
> >>>>>>>>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
> >>>>>>>>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for =
Seles
> >>>>>>>>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their f=
avorite
> >>>>>>>>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defe=
nding
> >>>>>>>>>> the troll=92s target and denigrating the troll=92s favorite.
> >>>>>>>>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you=
boast
> >>>>>>>>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast =
about
> >>>>>>>>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf troll=
ing
> >>>>>>>>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for =
Graf
> >>>>>>>>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inacti=
ve and
> >>>>>>>>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating =
one is
> >>>>>>>>>> the same as denigrating the other.
> >>>>>>>>> Shut up monkeyboy.
> >>>>>>>> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
> >>>>>>> Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
> >>>>>> Or perhaps Russian?
> >>>>> Why are you are sniffing my ass you silly little bugger?
> >>>> Sexy time wowaweewa!
> >>> Stop sniffing my ass you silly little bugger!
> >> Are you allowed to go outside without your blue hat?
>
> > Why do you ask, you silly bugger?
>
> It's only recently that gays didn't have to wear blue hats in
> Kazakhstan, according to Borat Sagdiyev, Jaros.

Kazakhstan must be your favorite country, you monkey bugger.


 
Date: 29 Dec 2008 08:58:53
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 29, 5:21=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> Fan wrote:
> > On Dec 28, 9:38 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >> Fan wrote:
> >>> On Dec 28, 5:46 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >>>> TT wrote:
> >>>>> Fan wrote:
> >>>>>> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Fan wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote=
:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STO=
P HER
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do yo=
u
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all need?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit th=
at =A0
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only t=
hat,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that time too.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious thi=
ngs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> happened, eg;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 =
when
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> she
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> returned after all);
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & bar=
ely
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> lose
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even thou=
gh
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> she was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggest=
s
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> she woulda
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & =
it's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> certain
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like t=
hem.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
> >>>>>>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21=
-29).
> >>>>>>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in th=
ose 2
> >>>>>>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
> >>>>>>>>>>> Max
> >>>>>>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand =
times
> >>>>>>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
> >>>>>>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatnes=
s of
> >>>>>>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime i=
n with
> >>>>>>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wou=
nd,
> >>>>>>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
> >>>>>>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Se=
les
> >>>>>>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their fav=
orite
> >>>>>>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defend=
ing
> >>>>>>>> the troll=92s target and denigrating the troll=92s favorite.
> >>>>>>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you b=
oast
> >>>>>>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast ab=
out
> >>>>>>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trollin=
g
> >>>>>>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Gr=
af
> >>>>>>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive=
and
> >>>>>>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating on=
e is
> >>>>>>>> the same as denigrating the other.
> >>>>>>> Shut up monkeyboy.
> >>>>>> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
> >>>>> Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
> >>>> Or perhaps Russian?
> >>> Why are you are sniffing my ass you silly little bugger?
> >> Sexy time wowaweewa!
>
> > Stop sniffing my ass you silly little bugger!
>
> Are you allowed to go outside without your blue hat?

Why do you ask, you silly bugger?


  
Date: 29 Dec 2008 22:25:46
From: TT
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Fan wrote:
> On Dec 29, 5:21 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>> Fan wrote:
>>> On Dec 28, 9:38 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>>> Fan wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 28, 5:46 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>>>>> TT wrote:
>>>>>>> Fan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Fan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all need?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that time too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened, eg;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> returned after all);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she woulda
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Max
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
>>>>>>>>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>>>>>>>>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
>>>>>>>>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
>>>>>>>>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
>>>>>>>>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
>>>>>>>>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
>>>>>>>>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
>>>>>>>>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
>>>>>>>>>> the trollís target and denigrating the trollís favorite.
>>>>>>>>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
>>>>>>>>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
>>>>>>>>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
>>>>>>>>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
>>>>>>>>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
>>>>>>>>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
>>>>>>>>>> the same as denigrating the other.
>>>>>>>>> Shut up monkeyboy.
>>>>>>>> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
>>>>>>> Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
>>>>>> Or perhaps Russian?
>>>>> Why are you are sniffing my ass you silly little bugger?
>>>> Sexy time wowaweewa!
>>> Stop sniffing my ass you silly little bugger!
>> Are you allowed to go outside without your blue hat?
>
> Why do you ask, you silly bugger?

It's only recently that gays didn't have to wear blue hats in
Kazakhstan, according to Borat Sagdiyev, Jaros.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 29 Dec 2008 00:57:56
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 28, 9:38=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> Fan wrote:
> > On Dec 28, 5:46 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >> TT wrote:
> >>> Fan wrote:
> >>>> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >>>>> Fan wrote:
> >>>>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP =
HER
> >>>>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you
> >>>>>>>>>>>> all need?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that=
=A0
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only tha=
t,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
> >>>>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that time too.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious thing=
s
> >>>>>>>>>>> happened, eg;
> >>>>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 wh=
en
> >>>>>>>>>>> she
> >>>>>>>>>>> returned after all);
> >>>>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barel=
y
> >>>>>>>>>>> lose
> >>>>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
> >>>>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though
> >>>>>>>>>>> she was
> >>>>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests
> >>>>>>>>>>> she woulda
> >>>>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
> >>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it=
's
> >>>>>>>>>>> certain
> >>>>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like the=
m.
> >>>>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> >>>>>>>>>> happened.
> >>>>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-2=
9).
> >>>>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in thos=
e 2
> >>>>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
> >>>>>>>>> Max
> >>>>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand ti=
mes
> >>>>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
> >>>>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness =
of
> >>>>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in =
with
> >>>>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound=
,
> >>>>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
> >>>>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Sele=
s
> >>>>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favor=
ite
> >>>>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defendin=
g
> >>>>>> the troll=92s target and denigrating the troll=92s favorite.
> >>>>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boa=
st
> >>>>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast abou=
t
> >>>>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
> >>>>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
> >>>>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive a=
nd
> >>>>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one =
is
> >>>>>> the same as denigrating the other.
> >>>>> Shut up monkeyboy.
> >>>> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
> >>> Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
> >> Or perhaps Russian?
>
> > Why are you are sniffing my ass you silly little bugger?
>
> Sexy time wowaweewa!

Stop sniffing my ass you silly little bugger!



  
Date: 29 Dec 2008 18:21:56
From: TT
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Fan wrote:
> On Dec 28, 9:38 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>> Fan wrote:
>>> On Dec 28, 5:46 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>>> TT wrote:
>>>>> Fan wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Fan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all need?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that time too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened, eg;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when
>>>>>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>>>>> returned after all);
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though
>>>>>>>>>>>>> she was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests
>>>>>>>>>>>>> she woulda
>>>>>>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
>>>>>>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
>>>>>>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>>>>>>>>>>> Max
>>>>>>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
>>>>>>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>>>>>>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
>>>>>>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
>>>>>>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
>>>>>>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
>>>>>>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
>>>>>>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
>>>>>>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
>>>>>>>> the trollís target and denigrating the trollís favorite.
>>>>>>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
>>>>>>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
>>>>>>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
>>>>>>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
>>>>>>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
>>>>>>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
>>>>>>>> the same as denigrating the other.
>>>>>>> Shut up monkeyboy.
>>>>>> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
>>>>> Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
>>>> Or perhaps Russian?
>>> Why are you are sniffing my ass you silly little bugger?
>> Sexy time wowaweewa!
>
> Stop sniffing my ass you silly little bugger!
>

Are you allowed to go outside without your blue hat?

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 28 Dec 2008 10:55:59
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 28, 5:46=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> TT wrote:
> > Fan wrote:
> >> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
> >>> Fan wrote:
> >>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> >>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> >>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
> >>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HE=
R
> >>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
> >>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you
> >>>>>>>>>> all need?
> >>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
> >>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
> >>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =
=A0
> >>>>>>>>>> Seles
> >>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
> >>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that,
> >>>>>>>>>> Seles
> >>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
> >>>>>>>>>> that time too.
> >>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things
> >>>>>>>>> happened, eg;
> >>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when
> >>>>>>>>> she
> >>>>>>>>> returned after all);
> >>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely
> >>>>>>>>> lose
> >>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
> >>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though
> >>>>>>>>> she was
> >>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests
> >>>>>>>>> she woulda
> >>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
> >>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
> >>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's
> >>>>>>>>> certain
> >>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
> >>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> >>>>>>>> happened.
> >>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29)=
.
> >>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those =
2
> >>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
> >>>>>>> Max
> >>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand time=
s
> >>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
> >>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
> >>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in wi=
th
> >>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
> >>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
> >>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
> >>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorit=
e
> >>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
> >>>> the troll=92s target and denigrating the troll=92s favorite.
> >>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
> >>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
> >>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
> >>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
> >>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
> >>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
> >>>> the same as denigrating the other.
> >>> Shut up monkeyboy.
>
> >> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
>
> > Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
>
> Or perhaps Russian?

Why are you are sniffing my ass you silly little bugger?


  
Date: 28 Dec 2008 22:38:34
From: TT
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Fan wrote:
> On Dec 28, 5:46 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>> TT wrote:
>>> Fan wrote:
>>>> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>>>> Fan wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>>>>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you
>>>>>>>>>>>> all need?
>>>>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that
>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
>>>>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
>>>>>>>>>>>> that time too.
>>>>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things
>>>>>>>>>>> happened, eg;
>>>>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when
>>>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>>> returned after all);
>>>>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely
>>>>>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>>>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though
>>>>>>>>>>> she was
>>>>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests
>>>>>>>>>>> she woulda
>>>>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
>>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's
>>>>>>>>>>> certain
>>>>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>>>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
>>>>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
>>>>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>>>>>>>>> Max
>>>>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
>>>>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>>>>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
>>>>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
>>>>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
>>>>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
>>>>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
>>>>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
>>>>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
>>>>>> the trollís target and denigrating the trollís favorite.
>>>>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
>>>>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
>>>>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
>>>>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
>>>>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
>>>>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
>>>>>> the same as denigrating the other.
>>>>> Shut up monkeyboy.
>>>> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
>>> Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
>> Or perhaps Russian?
>
> Why are you are sniffing my ass you silly little bugger?

Sexy time wowaweewa!

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 28 Dec 2008 03:56:38
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 28, 10:55=A0am, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de > wrote:
> On Dec 28, 12:28=A0am, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 27, 11:54=A0am, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 26, 10:15=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > > > cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > > > > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > > > > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > > > > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > > > > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> > > > > > from beating Graff..
>
> > > > > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all=
need?
>
> > > > > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > > > > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > > > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =
=A0Seles
> > > > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > > > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, =
Seles
> > > > > > must have been one super playing person at
> > > > > > that time too.
>
> > > > > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things ha=
ppened, eg;
>
> > > > > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when s=
he
> > > > > returned after all);
>
> > > > > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lo=
se
> > > > > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> > > > > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she=
was
> > > > > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she =
woulda
> > > > > faded out early anyway.
>
> > > > No it doesn't.
>
> > > > > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's c=
ertain
> > > > > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>
> > > > Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> > > > happened.
>
> > > We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
> > > 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
> > > years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>
> > That statement should be so obviously ridiculous to anyone with an
> > ounce of intelligence.
>
> > Unfortunately your blind Graf worship seems to have affected your
> > brain. ...
>
> Let me guess - you are American?
>
> Max

Alternative stupid response supplied instead ...



  
Date: 28 Dec 2008 16:58:47
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:56:38 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Dec 28, 10:55†am, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>> On Dec 28, 12:28†am, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 27, 11:54†am, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Dec 26, 10:15†pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Dec 25, 7:51†pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > cehowardrc51 wrote:
>> > > > > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>> > > > > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>> > > > > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>
>> > > > > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>> > > > > > from beating Graff..
>>
>> > > > > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?
>>
>> > > > > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>
>> > > > > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>
>> > > > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that †Seles
>> > > > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
>> > > > > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
>> > > > > > must have been one super playing person at
>> > > > > > that time too.
>>
>> > > > > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happened, eg;
>>
>> > > > > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
>> > > > > returned after all);
>>
>> > > > > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
>> > > > > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>
>> > > > > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
>> > > > > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woulda
>> > > > > faded out early anyway.
>>
>> > > > No it doesn't.
>>
>> > > > > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certain
>> > > > > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>
>> > > > Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
>> > > > happened.
>>
>> > > We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
>> > > 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
>> > > years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>>
>> > That statement should be so obviously ridiculous to anyone with an
>> > ounce of intelligence.
>>
>> > Unfortunately your blind Graf worship seems to have affected your
>> > brain. ...
>>
>> Let me guess - you are American?
>>
>> Max
>
>Alternative stupid response supplied instead ...

No, that's actually the original stupid response.



 
Date: 28 Dec 2008 02:55:26
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 28, 12:28=A0am, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 27, 11:54=A0am, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 26, 10:15=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > > cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > > > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > > > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > > > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > > > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> > > > > from beating Graff..
>
> > > > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all n=
eed?
>
> > > > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > > > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =A0S=
eles
> > > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Se=
les
> > > > > must have been one super playing person at
> > > > > that time too.
>
> > > > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happ=
ened, eg;
>
> > > > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
> > > > returned after all);
>
> > > > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
> > > > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> > > > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she w=
as
> > > > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she wo=
ulda
> > > > faded out early anyway.
>
> > > No it doesn't.
>
> > > > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's cer=
tain
> > > > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>
> > > Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> > > happened.
>
> > We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
> > 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
> > years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>
> That statement should be so obviously ridiculous to anyone with an
> ounce of intelligence.
>
> Unfortunately your blind Graf worship seems to have affected your
> brain. ...


Let me guess - you are American?


Max


 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 23:20:32
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 28, 12:00=A0am, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de > wrote:
> On Dec 27, 7:42=A0pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 27, 6:15=A0pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 27, 12:59=A0pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 27, 12:54=A0pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 26, 10:15=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > > > > > > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > > > > > > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > > > > > > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > > > > > > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP=
HER
> > > > > > > > from beating Graff..
>
> > > > > > > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you=
all need?
>
> > > > > > > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > > > > > > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > > > > > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit tha=
t =A0Seles
> > > > > > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > > > > > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only th=
at, Seles
> > > > > > > > must have been one super playing person at
> > > > > > > > that time too.
>
> > > > > > > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious thing=
s happened, eg;
>
> > > > > > > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 wh=
en she
> > > > > > > returned after all);
>
> > > > > > > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barel=
y lose
> > > > > > > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> > > > > > > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though=
she was
> > > > > > > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests =
she woulda
> > > > > > > faded out early anyway.
>
> > > > > > No it doesn't.
>
> > > > > > > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it=
's certain
> > > > > > > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like the=
m.
>
> > > > > > Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> > > > > > happened.
>
> > > > > We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29)=
.
> > > > > 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those =
2
> > > > > years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>
> > > > > Max
>
> > > > Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
> > > > but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>
> > > It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
> > > Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
> > > their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
> > > started to rain - or whatever) ...
>
> > Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
> > are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
> > and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
> > the troll=92s target and denigrating the troll=92s favorite.
> > In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
> > about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
> > Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
> > brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
> > being slimed. ...
>
> Wrong, son.
> Those rabid Selesians attacks show again and again for the whole world
> to see how ridiculous their arguments are.
>
> Consider that their fave
>
> a) had a lower (!!) winning percentage in her best year ever (1992)
> than Graf in a 11-year-period (!!!) and
>
> b) lost 3 of 4 matches (=3D 75 %!) in her best two years ever against
> Graf!

No one cares about pro-graf or pro-seles trolling. A troll is a troll.


 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 23:17:06
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 28, 2:35=A0am, amy <amy.lynn1...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Dec 27, 3:55=A0am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 27 Dec, 08:06, "*skriptis" <skrip...@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
>
> > > OK, it's off season..time for a knife thread..:)
>
> > > >"Calimero" <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote in message
> > > >news:3a6cc33e-cfbb-4177-88d7-ba39d0330b55@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.c=
om...
> > > >Seles's two best years 1991/92:
> > > >Lost 3 of 4 matches against Graf.
> > > >Had a lower winning percentage than Graf in a 11-year period
> > > >(1986-96).
> > > >So peak Seles was obviously worse than average Graf ...
> > > >And Seles had a lower winning percentage from May 1992 until April
> > > >1993 (92 %) than from May 1991 until April 1992 (94 %).
> > > >So Seles was obviously getting worse ...
>
> > > This is a nice argument, but you as well must know it means nothing.
> > > For greatness we look at someone's slam record. Looking at overal
> > > percenatges in Sampras' case might make look him like Becker type.
>
> > > So thing about Seles is that she had mental edge over Graf (irrelevan=
t why,
> > > plain superiority like in Rafa-Fed cas, or Graf being not at her best=
and
> > > distracted).
> > > But she had it, she was winning slams, and even though it was very li=
kely
> > > she would fade out in some way because of her game and because =A0the=
fact
> > > what kind of player she was, the stabing interupted her reign. It cou=
ld have
> > > been a small injury, but we can only guess what kind of scenario woul=
d
> > > happen in that case.
> > > Oviosly she was very weak mentally and unable/unwilling to come back =
as soon
> > > as possible.
> > > But who are we to judge, the very feeling of someone wanting to kill/=
wound
> > > you when you're a 19-year old girl is not something that should be di=
ssmised
> > > so easily.
>
> > > So your percentages, even though very nice, are rather missleading.
>
> > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
> > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > >We saw in 1995-2003 that Seles was an overrated player.
> > > >Or do you think she lost tons of matches against Hingis in 1997-2002
> > > >because of a minor stab wound received in 1993 ... ?
>
> > > Seles was in her late 20s during that period and most likely would ha=
ve had
> > > similar results even without the stabbing. She was basically that kin=
d of
> > > "peak during teens" type of players.
> > > Graf was simply better. More atlethic, better fighter etc.
> > > But Seles at her peak had outstanding focus and in-game determination=
.
> > > Something that attributed to her success in a great way. Similar to R=
afa.
> > > What would have happened if he were to lose that mental strenght? And
> > > someone wanting to kill you, or attacking you in that way might do it=
. It
> > > certainly did for Seles.
>
> > > She is to blame for not getting over it as quickly as possible, but i=
t did
> > > happen, it did change the history of the game, and it did take her th=
e
> > > possibility of winning some slams, maybe even GS in 1993 and few more=
in the
> > > next years, at least until the age wouldn't caught up with here and H=
ingis
> > > and new girls came.
>
> > > Personally I think Graf is ability GOAT and would have liked it had s=
he
> > > broke the slam record. And the thought of her winning more slams with=
seles
> > > around is not that stupid either. The rivalry could have outstanding =
with
> > > both players very focused and maybe even both of them winning more sl=
ams
> > > than they did. Seles would certainly win more. Maybe even Graf.
>
> > > But maybe it's just great irony of life. Seles was stopped at her pea=
k, and
> > > Graf, even not being too old, and still very good, minus injuries, fa=
iled to
> > > break Court's record.
>
> > Wrong statement mofo. Graf didnt want to break Court's record. She was
> > never about breaking records. She was about finding joy through
> > winning.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> why call them a "mofo" do they actually fuck their mother?

This raja thing judges others according to his own customs.



 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 23:13:26
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 27, 11:07=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> Fan wrote:
> > On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> >>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
> >>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> >>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> >>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
> >>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> >>>>>>> from beating Graff..
> >>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all n=
eed?
> >>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
> >>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
> >>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =A0S=
eles
> >>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
> >>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Se=
les
> >>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
> >>>>>>> that time too.
> >>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things hap=
pened, eg;
> >>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when sh=
e
> >>>>>> returned after all);
> >>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely los=
e
> >>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
> >>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she =
was
> >>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she w=
oulda
> >>>>>> faded out early anyway.
> >>>>> No it doesn't.
> >>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's ce=
rtain
> >>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
> >>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> >>>>> happened.
> >>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
> >>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
> >>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
> >>>> Max
> >>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
> >>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
> >> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
> >> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
> >> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
> >> started to rain - or whatever) ...
>
> > Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
> > are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
> > and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
> > the troll=92s target and denigrating the troll=92s favorite.
> > In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
> > about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
> > Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
> > brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
> > being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
> > should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
> > the same as denigrating the other.
>
> Shut up monkeyboy.

Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong


  
Date: 28 Dec 2008 18:45:14
From: TT
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Fan wrote:
> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>> Fan wrote:
>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?
>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
>>>>>>>>> that time too.
>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happened, eg;
>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
>>>>>>>> returned after all);
>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woulda
>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certain
>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>>>>>> Max
>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
>>> the trollís target and denigrating the trollís favorite.
>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
>>> the same as denigrating the other.
>> Shut up monkeyboy.
>
> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong

Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


   
Date: 28 Dec 2008 18:46:29
From: TT
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
TT wrote:
> Fan wrote:
>> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>> Fan wrote:
>>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
>>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you
>>>>>>>>>> all need?
>>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that
>>>>>>>>>> Seles
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
>>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that,
>>>>>>>>>> Seles
>>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
>>>>>>>>>> that time too.
>>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things
>>>>>>>>> happened, eg;
>>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when
>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>> returned after all);
>>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely
>>>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though
>>>>>>>>> she was
>>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests
>>>>>>>>> she woulda
>>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
>>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's
>>>>>>>>> certain
>>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
>>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
>>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>>>>>>> Max
>>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
>>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
>>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
>>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
>>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
>>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
>>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
>>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
>>>> the trollís target and denigrating the trollís favorite.
>>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
>>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
>>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
>>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
>>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
>>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
>>>> the same as denigrating the other.
>>> Shut up monkeyboy.
>>
>> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
>
> Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
>

Or perhaps Russian?

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


    
Date: 29 Dec 2008 06:30:32
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
TT wrote:
> TT wrote:
>> Fan wrote:
>>> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>>> Fan wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>>>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>>>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you
>>>>>>>>>>> all need?
>>>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that
>>>>>>>>>>> Seles
>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
>>>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only
>>>>>>>>>>> that, Seles
>>>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
>>>>>>>>>>> that time too.
>>>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things
>>>>>>>>>> happened, eg;
>>>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21
>>>>>>>>>> when she
>>>>>>>>>> returned after all);
>>>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely
>>>>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though
>>>>>>>>>> she was
>>>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests
>>>>>>>>>> she woulda
>>>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens &
>>>>>>>>>> it's certain
>>>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
>>>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
>>>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>>>>>>>> Max
>>>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
>>>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>>>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
>>>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
>>>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
>>>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
>>>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
>>>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
>>>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
>>>>> the trollís target and denigrating the trollís favorite.
>>>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
>>>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
>>>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
>>>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
>>>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
>>>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
>>>>> the same as denigrating the other.
>>>> Shut up monkeyboy.
>>>
>>> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
>>
>> Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
>>
>
> Or perhaps Russian?
>




Ukraine.



     
Date: 28 Dec 2008 22:37:40
From: TT
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Whisper wrote:
> TT wrote:
>> TT wrote:
>>> Fan wrote:
>>>> On Dec 27, 11:07 pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org> wrote:
>>>>> Fan wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>>>>>>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you
>>>>>>>>>>>> all need?
>>>>>>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit
>>>>>>>>>>>> that Seles
>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
>>>>>>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only
>>>>>>>>>>>> that, Seles
>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
>>>>>>>>>>>> that time too.
>>>>>>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious
>>>>>>>>>>> things happened, eg;
>>>>>>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21
>>>>>>>>>>> when she
>>>>>>>>>>> returned after all);
>>>>>>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, &
>>>>>>>>>>> barely lose
>>>>>>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>>>>>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though
>>>>>>>>>>> she was
>>>>>>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests
>>>>>>>>>>> she woulda
>>>>>>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
>>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens &
>>>>>>>>>>> it's certain
>>>>>>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>>>>>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
>>>>>>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
>>>>>>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>>>>>>>>> Max
>>>>>>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
>>>>>>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>>>>>>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
>>>>>>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
>>>>>>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
>>>>>> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
>>>>>> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
>>>>>> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
>>>>>> the trollís target and denigrating the trollís favorite.
>>>>>> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
>>>>>> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
>>>>>> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
>>>>>> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
>>>>>> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
>>>>>> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
>>>>>> the same as denigrating the other.
>>>>> Shut up monkeyboy.
>>>>
>>>> Crawl back to your rat hole where you belong
>>>
>>> Jaros...is that a Czech name? lol!
>>>
>>
>> Or perhaps Russian?
>>
>
>
>
>
> Ukraine.
>

Probably Kazakhstan...wowaweewa!

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 17:35:06
From: amy
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 27, 3:55=A0am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 27 Dec, 08:06, "*skriptis" <skrip...@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > OK, it's off season..time for a knife thread..:)
>
> > >"Calimero" <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote in message
> > >news:3a6cc33e-cfbb-4177-88d7-ba39d0330b55@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com=
...
> > >Seles's two best years 1991/92:
> > >Lost 3 of 4 matches against Graf.
> > >Had a lower winning percentage than Graf in a 11-year period
> > >(1986-96).
> > >So peak Seles was obviously worse than average Graf ...
> > >And Seles had a lower winning percentage from May 1992 until April
> > >1993 (92 %) than from May 1991 until April 1992 (94 %).
> > >So Seles was obviously getting worse ...
>
> > This is a nice argument, but you as well must know it means nothing.
> > For greatness we look at someone's slam record. Looking at overal
> > percenatges in Sampras' case might make look him like Becker type.
>
> > So thing about Seles is that she had mental edge over Graf (irrelevant =
why,
> > plain superiority like in Rafa-Fed cas, or Graf being not at her best a=
nd
> > distracted).
> > But she had it, she was winning slams, and even though it was very like=
ly
> > she would fade out in some way because of her game and because =A0the f=
act
> > what kind of player she was, the stabing interupted her reign. It could=
have
> > been a small injury, but we can only guess what kind of scenario would
> > happen in that case.
> > Oviosly she was very weak mentally and unable/unwilling to come back as=
soon
> > as possible.
> > But who are we to judge, the very feeling of someone wanting to kill/wo=
und
> > you when you're a 19-year old girl is not something that should be diss=
mised
> > so easily.
>
> > So your percentages, even though very nice, are rather missleading.
>
> > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
> > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > >We saw in 1995-2003 that Seles was an overrated player.
> > >Or do you think she lost tons of matches against Hingis in 1997-2002
> > >because of a minor stab wound received in 1993 ... ?
>
> > Seles was in her late 20s during that period and most likely would have=
had
> > similar results even without the stabbing. She was basically that kind =
of
> > "peak during teens" type of players.
> > Graf was simply better. More atlethic, better fighter etc.
> > But Seles at her peak had outstanding focus and in-game determination.
> > Something that attributed to her success in a great way. Similar to Raf=
a.
> > What would have happened if he were to lose that mental strenght? And
> > someone wanting to kill you, or attacking you in that way might do it. =
It
> > certainly did for Seles.
>
> > She is to blame for not getting over it as quickly as possible, but it =
did
> > happen, it did change the history of the game, and it did take her the
> > possibility of winning some slams, maybe even GS in 1993 and few more i=
n the
> > next years, at least until the age wouldn't caught up with here and Hin=
gis
> > and new girls came.
>
> > Personally I think Graf is ability GOAT and would have liked it had she
> > broke the slam record. And the thought of her winning more slams with s=
eles
> > around is not that stupid either. The rivalry could have outstanding wi=
th
> > both players very focused and maybe even both of them winning more slam=
s
> > than they did. Seles would certainly win more. Maybe even Graf.
>
> > But maybe it's just great irony of life. Seles was stopped at her peak,=
and
> > Graf, even not being too old, and still very good, minus injuries, fail=
ed to
> > break Court's record.
>
> Wrong statement mofo. Graf didnt want to break Court's record. She was
> never about breaking records. She was about finding joy through
> winning.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

why call them a "mofo" do they actually fuck their mother?


 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 15:28:25
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 27, 11:54=A0am, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de > wrote:
> On Dec 26, 10:15=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> > > > from beating Graff..
>
> > > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all nee=
d?
>
> > > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =A0Sel=
es
> > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Sele=
s
> > > > must have been one super playing person at
> > > > that time too.
>
> > > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happen=
ed, eg;
>
> > > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
> > > returned after all);
>
> > > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
> > > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> > > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
> > > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woul=
da
> > > faded out early anyway.
>
> > No it doesn't.
>
> > > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certa=
in
> > > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>
> > Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> > happened.
>
> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).

That statement should be so obviously ridiculous to anyone with an
ounce of intelligence.

Unfortunately your blind Graf worship seems to have affected your
brain.

And please don't reply with your standard stupid response of "I
presume you are American?"







 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 15:00:16
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 27, 7:42=A0pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Dec 27, 6:15=A0pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 27, 12:59=A0pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 27, 12:54=A0pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 26, 10:15=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > > > > cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > > > > > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > > > > > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > > > > > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > > > > > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP H=
ER
> > > > > > > from beating Graff..
>
> > > > > > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you a=
ll need?
>
> > > > > > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > > > > > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > > > > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =
=A0Seles
> > > > > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > > > > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that=
, Seles
> > > > > > > must have been one super playing person at
> > > > > > > that time too.
>
> > > > > > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things =
happened, eg;
>
> > > > > > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when=
she
> > > > > > returned after all);
>
> > > > > > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely =
lose
> > > > > > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> > > > > > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though s=
he was
> > > > > > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests sh=
e woulda
> > > > > > faded out early anyway.
>
> > > > > No it doesn't.
>
> > > > > > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's=
certain
> > > > > > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>
> > > > > Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> > > > > happened.
>
> > > > We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
> > > > 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
> > > > years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>
> > > > Max
>
> > > Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
> > > but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>
> > It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
> > Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
> > their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
> > started to rain - or whatever) ...
>
> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
> the troll=92s target and denigrating the troll=92s favorite.
> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
> being slimed. ...

Wrong, son.
Those rabid Selesians attacks show again and again for the whole world
to see how ridiculous their arguments are.

Consider that their fave

a) had a lower (!!) winning percentage in her best year ever (1992)
than Graf in a 11-year-period (!!!) and

b) lost 3 of 4 matches (=3D 75 %!) in her best two years ever against
Graf!


Max


 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 10:42:53
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 27, 6:15=A0pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de > wrote:
> On Dec 27, 12:59=A0pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 27, 12:54=A0pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 26, 10:15=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > > > cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > > > > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > > > > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > > > > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > > > > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> > > > > > from beating Graff..
>
> > > > > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all=
need?
>
> > > > > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > > > > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > > > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =
=A0Seles
> > > > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > > > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, =
Seles
> > > > > > must have been one super playing person at
> > > > > > that time too.
>
> > > > > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things ha=
ppened, eg;
>
> > > > > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when s=
he
> > > > > returned after all);
>
> > > > > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lo=
se
> > > > > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> > > > > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she=
was
> > > > > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she =
woulda
> > > > > faded out early anyway.
>
> > > > No it doesn't.
>
> > > > > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's c=
ertain
> > > > > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>
> > > > Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> > > > happened.
>
> > > We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
> > > 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
> > > years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>
> > > Max
>
> > Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
> > but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>
> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
> started to rain - or whatever) ...

Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
the troll=92s target and denigrating the troll=92s favorite.
In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
the same as denigrating the other.


  
Date: 28 Dec 2008 00:07:28
From: TT
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Fan wrote:
> On Dec 27, 6:15 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>> On Dec 27, 12:59 pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>> On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 25, 7:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
>>>>>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>>>>>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>>>>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>>>>>>> from beating Graff..
>>>>>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?
>>>>>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>>>>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>>>>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
>>>>>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
>>>>>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
>>>>>>> must have been one super playing person at
>>>>>>> that time too.
>>>>>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happened, eg;
>>>>>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
>>>>>> returned after all);
>>>>>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
>>>>>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>>>>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
>>>>>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woulda
>>>>>> faded out early anyway.
>>>>> No it doesn't.
>>>>>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certain
>>>>>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>>>> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
>>>>> happened.
>>>> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
>>>> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
>>>> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>>>> Max
>>> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
>>> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.
>> It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
>> Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
>> their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
>> started to rain - or whatever) ...
>
> Trolls, such as you trolling for Graf and trolls trolling for Seles
> are too stupid to realize that whenever they troll for their favorite
> and against the other player, there are usually responses defending
> the trollís target and denigrating the trollís favorite.
> In simple terms, so that you may be able to comprehend, if you boast
> about Graf and say bad things about Seles, someone will boast about
> Seles and say bad things about Graf. Ergo, your pro-Graf trolling
> brings out attacks on Graf and that makes you responsible for Graf
> being slimed. These two former great champions are long inactive and
> should be left alone to live their private lives. Denigrating one is
> the same as denigrating the other.

Shut up monkeyboy.

--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 09:15:58
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 27, 12:59=A0pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Dec 27, 12:54=A0pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 26, 10:15=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > > cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > > > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > > > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > > > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > > > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> > > > > from beating Graff..
>
> > > > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all n=
eed?
>
> > > > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > > > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =A0S=
eles
> > > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Se=
les
> > > > > must have been one super playing person at
> > > > > that time too.
>
> > > > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happ=
ened, eg;
>
> > > > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
> > > > returned after all);
>
> > > > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
> > > > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> > > > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she w=
as
> > > > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she wo=
ulda
> > > > faded out early anyway.
>
> > > No it doesn't.
>
> > > > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's cer=
tain
> > > > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>
> > > Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> > > happened.
>
> > We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
> > 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
> > years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>
> > Max
>
> Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
> but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.

It's always the same - tennis fans are celebrating the greatness of
Steffi Graf and then some Selesian woulda-coulda-trolls chime in with
their pathetic excuses (wasn't allowed to grunt, minor stab wound,
started to rain - or whatever) ...

Max


 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 03:59:13
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 27, 12:54=A0pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de > wrote:
> On Dec 26, 10:15=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> > > > from beating Graff..
>
> > > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all nee=
d?
>
> > > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =A0Sel=
es
> > > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Sele=
s
> > > > must have been one super playing person at
> > > > that time too.
>
> > > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happen=
ed, eg;
>
> > > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
> > > returned after all);
>
> > > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
> > > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> > > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
> > > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woul=
da
> > > faded out early anyway.
>
> > No it doesn't.
>
> > > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certa=
in
> > > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>
> > Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> > happened.
>
> We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
> 8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
> years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).
>
> Max

Whatever anyone had to say for either side said it a thousand times
but if you must keep on trolling, keep in trolling.



 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 03:54:09
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 26, 10:15=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
> > cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> > > from beating Graff..
>
> > > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?
>
> > > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =A0Seles
> > > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
> > > must have been one super playing person at
> > > that time too.
>
> > Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happened=
, eg;
>
> > - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
> > returned after all);
>
> > - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
> > another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> > The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
> > only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woulda
> > faded out early anyway.
>
> No it doesn't.
>
> > Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certain
> > Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>
> Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
> happened.


We know that Seles won 1 slam in 1995-2003 (peak prime age 21-29).
8 years are a better indication of what might have been in those 2
years Seles missed than 2 successful years (91/92).

Max


 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 03:52:13
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Troll alert: 45 posts and going - Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 26, 6:35=A0pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Sound the troll alert every time someone starts a Graf or Seles
> thread. One can say that Graf did it without the KNIFE and another can
> say that Graf was cooked without the KNIFE. We heard it all without
> anyone being able to convince anyone.
> The stabbing is as much of tennis history as Nadal=92s dominance on clay
> and Federer=92s inevitable march to break Sampras=92 slam record.
> We can talk it to death (that is what trolls do) but we will not be
> able to change the fact that Seles was #1 when a Graf fan stabbed her.
> This is fact. Everything else is opinion.

A fact is that Seles was stabbed just when Graf had closed the gap in
WTA ranking points from 58 (January 1992) to a mere 21 (April 1993)
and when Graf had just equalled Seles's 12-month-rolling winning
percentage (92 %) for the first time in more than 2 years.
Everything else is opinion.

Max


 
Date: 27 Dec 2008 01:55:27
From: Raja
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On 27 Dec, 08:06, "*skriptis" <skrip...@post.t-com.hr > wrote:
> OK, it's off season..time for a knife thread..:)
>
> >"Calimero" <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote in message
> >news:3a6cc33e-cfbb-4177-88d7-ba39d0330b55@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com..=
.
> >Seles's two best years 1991/92:
> >Lost 3 of 4 matches against Graf.
> >Had a lower winning percentage than Graf in a 11-year period
> >(1986-96).
> >So peak Seles was obviously worse than average Graf ...
> >And Seles had a lower winning percentage from May 1992 until April
> >1993 (92 %) than from May 1991 until April 1992 (94 %).
> >So Seles was obviously getting worse ...
>
> This is a nice argument, but you as well must know it means nothing.
> For greatness we look at someone's slam record. Looking at overal
> percenatges in Sampras' case might make look him like Becker type.
>
> So thing about Seles is that she had mental edge over Graf (irrelevant wh=
y,
> plain superiority like in Rafa-Fed cas, or Graf being not at her best and
> distracted).
> But she had it, she was winning slams, and even though it was very likely
> she would fade out in some way because of her game and because =A0the fac=
t
> what kind of player she was, the stabing interupted her reign. It could h=
ave
> been a small injury, but we can only guess what kind of scenario would
> happen in that case.
> Oviosly she was very weak mentally and unable/unwilling to come back as s=
oon
> as possible.
> But who are we to judge, the very feeling of someone wanting to kill/woun=
d
> you when you're a 19-year old girl is not something that should be dissmi=
sed
> so easily.
>
> So your percentages, even though very nice, are rather missleading.
>
> > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
> > wouldn't have done this or that.
> >We saw in 1995-2003 that Seles was an overrated player.
> >Or do you think she lost tons of matches against Hingis in 1997-2002
> >because of a minor stab wound received in 1993 ... ?
>
> Seles was in her late 20s during that period and most likely would have h=
ad
> similar results even without the stabbing. She was basically that kind of
> "peak during teens" type of players.
> Graf was simply better. More atlethic, better fighter etc.
> But Seles at her peak had outstanding focus and in-game determination.
> Something that attributed to her success in a great way. Similar to Rafa.
> What would have happened if he were to lose that mental strenght? And
> someone wanting to kill you, or attacking you in that way might do it. It
> certainly did for Seles.
>
> She is to blame for not getting over it as quickly as possible, but it di=
d
> happen, it did change the history of the game, and it did take her the
> possibility of winning some slams, maybe even GS in 1993 and few more in =
the
> next years, at least until the age wouldn't caught up with here and Hingi=
s
> and new girls came.
>
> Personally I think Graf is ability GOAT and would have liked it had she
> broke the slam record. And the thought of her winning more slams with sel=
es
> around is not that stupid either. The rivalry could have outstanding with
> both players very focused and maybe even both of them winning more slams
> than they did. Seles would certainly win more. Maybe even Graf.
>
> But maybe it's just great irony of life. Seles was stopped at her peak, a=
nd
> Graf, even not being too old, and still very good, minus injuries, failed=
to
> break Court's record.

Wrong statement mofo. Graf didnt want to break Court's record. She was
never about breaking records. She was about finding joy through
winning.


 
Date: 26 Dec 2008 13:15:55
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 25, 7:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> > from beating Graff..
>
> > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?
>
> > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =A0Seles
> > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
> > must have been one super playing person at
> > that time too.
>
> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happened, =
eg;
>
> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
> returned after all);
>
> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woulda
> faded out early anyway.

No it doesn't.

> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certain
> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>

Certain? That's ridiculous. You have no idea what would have
happened.





 
Date: 26 Dec 2008 12:20:46
From: cehowardrc51
Subject: Re: Troll alert: 45 posts and going - Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 26, 12:35=A0pm, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Sound the troll alert every time someone starts a Graf or Seles
> thread. One can say that Graf did it without the KNIFE and another can
> say that Graf was cooked without the KNIFE. We heard it all without
> anyone being able to convince anyone.
> The stabbing is as much of tennis history as Nadal=92s dominance on clay
> and Federer=92s inevitable march to break Sampras=92 slam record.
> We can talk it to death (that is what trolls do) but we will not be
> able to change the fact that Seles was #1 when a Graf fan stabbed her.
> This is fact. Everything else is opinion.

FINALLY SOMEBODY to TELL IT LIKE IT IS..

thumbup thumbup thumbup.

And not only that, you put it is PLAIN AS IT CAN BE. Even a
kindergarten kid can understand that.
Seles #1 Gets stabbed by a Graff fan.. End of story..

Don't know why people cannot ADMIT they were WRONG...


 
Date: 26 Dec 2008 11:23:53
From: cehowardrc51
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 25, 10:14=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > On Dec 25, 4:31 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
> >> Rubbish. A known fact is something that actually happened.
>
> > A Known Fact=3Dthe stabber stabbed Seles to stop her from beating Graff
> > (this is a FACT)
> >> Why is the reason given by a nutter relevant?
>
> > It is RELEVANT, because HE is the one that cause/did the action..
> > Can't get no more RELEVANT than that!
>
> >> Why does it matter? Suppose Seles was hit by a car instead, or twisted=
her
> >> knee and needed a reconstruction. Suppose she just retired. She'd stil=
l have
> >> been out of the game just the same. Why does it make such a difference=
that
> >> a nutter did it for this or that reason, as though he's a sane, ration=
al
> >> person?
>
> > Point is, she WASN'T HIT BE A CAR, she was STABBED by a person that
> > wanted to
> > stop her from beating and/or getting ahead of Graff..
>
> > The FACTS all back me up.. All you all have is wishful thinking and
> > conjectures!!
>
> > Sorry, that won't wash..
>
> er, the fact is the wound was not much more than a paper cup so Seles
> has no excuse for staying away more than 1 week.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I would expect something more sensible from you. That line about the
stabbed was no more than
a paper cup, puts you squarely in the TROLL/DUMMY/DON'T KNOW JACK CHIT
class!!

I thoiught you were better than that!!


 
Date: 26 Dec 2008 09:35:33
From: Fan
Subject: Troll alert: 45 posts and going - Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Sound the troll alert every time someone starts a Graf or Seles
thread. One can say that Graf did it without the KNIFE and another can
say that Graf was cooked without the KNIFE. We heard it all without
anyone being able to convince anyone.
The stabbing is as much of tennis history as Nadal=92s dominance on clay
and Federer=92s inevitable march to break Sampras=92 slam record.
We can talk it to death (that is what trolls do) but we will not be
able to change the fact that Seles was #1 when a Graf fan stabbed her.
This is fact. Everything else is opinion.



 
Date: 26 Dec 2008 07:05:11
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 25, 8:38=A0pm, cehowardrc51 <cehowardr...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.

Which ones?

>
> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> from beating Graff..

He was a retard, obviously.

> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?

He was stone-dumb.
Thought Graf wouldn't be able to beat Seles on a constant basis.

> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..

Seles's two best years 1991/92:
Lost 3 of 4 matches against Graf.
Had a lower winning percentage than Graf in a 11-year period
(1986-96).
So peak Seles was obviously worse than average Graf ...

And Seles had a lower winning percentage from May 1992 until April
1993 (92 %) than from May 1991 until April 1992 (94 %).
So Seles was obviously getting worse ...

> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =A0Seles
> wouldn't have done this or that.

We saw in 1995-2003 that Seles was an overrated player.
Or do you think she lost tons of matches against Hingis in 1997-2002
because of a minor stab wound received in 1993 ... ?

> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
> must have been one super playing person at
> that time too. IMO, they should have turn the Seles fans loose on the
> stabber. That would have been justice!!
> Wish I was there!!! :)

Parche would have out-witted you.
You are simply too dumb.

Max


  
Date: 27 Dec 2008 09:06:24
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
OK, it's off season..time for a knife thread..:)


>"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>news:3a6cc33e-cfbb-4177-88d7-ba39d0330b55@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

>Seles's two best years 1991/92:
>Lost 3 of 4 matches against Graf.
>Had a lower winning percentage than Graf in a 11-year period
>(1986-96).
>So peak Seles was obviously worse than average Graf ...

>And Seles had a lower winning percentage from May 1992 until April
>1993 (92 %) than from May 1991 until April 1992 (94 %).
>So Seles was obviously getting worse ...

This is a nice argument, but you as well must know it means nothing.
For greatness we look at someone's slam record. Looking at overal
percenatges in Sampras' case might make look him like Becker type.

So thing about Seles is that she had mental edge over Graf (irrelevant why,
plain superiority like in Rafa-Fed cas, or Graf being not at her best and
distracted).
But she had it, she was winning slams, and even though it was very likely
she would fade out in some way because of her game and because the fact
what kind of player she was, the stabing interupted her reign. It could have
been a small injury, but we can only guess what kind of scenario would
happen in that case.
Oviosly she was very weak mentally and unable/unwilling to come back as soon
as possible.
But who are we to judge, the very feeling of someone wanting to kill/wound
you when you're a 19-year old girl is not something that should be dissmised
so easily.

So your percentages, even though very nice, are rather missleading.



> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
> wouldn't have done this or that.

>We saw in 1995-2003 that Seles was an overrated player.
>Or do you think she lost tons of matches against Hingis in 1997-2002
>because of a minor stab wound received in 1993 ... ?

Seles was in her late 20s during that period and most likely would have had
similar results even without the stabbing. She was basically that kind of
"peak during teens" type of players.
Graf was simply better. More atlethic, better fighter etc.
But Seles at her peak had outstanding focus and in-game determination.
Something that attributed to her success in a great way. Similar to Rafa.
What would have happened if he were to lose that mental strenght? And
someone wanting to kill you, or attacking you in that way might do it. It
certainly did for Seles.

She is to blame for not getting over it as quickly as possible, but it did
happen, it did change the history of the game, and it did take her the
possibility of winning some slams, maybe even GS in 1993 and few more in the
next years, at least until the age wouldn't caught up with here and Hingis
and new girls came.


Personally I think Graf is ability GOAT and would have liked it had she
broke the slam record. And the thought of her winning more slams with seles
around is not that stupid either. The rivalry could have outstanding with
both players very focused and maybe even both of them winning more slams
than they did. Seles would certainly win more. Maybe even Graf.

But maybe it's just great irony of life. Seles was stopped at her peak, and
Graf, even not being too old, and still very good, minus injuries, failed to
break Court's record.





 
Date: 25 Dec 2008 16:54:38
From: cehowardrc51
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 25, 4:31=A0pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided > wrote:
>
> Rubbish. A known fact is something that actually happened.

A Known Fact=3Dthe stabber stabbed Seles to stop her from beating Graff
(this is a FACT)
>
> Why is the reason given by a nutter relevant?

It is RELEVANT, because HE is the one that cause/did the action..
Can't get no more RELEVANT than that!
>
>
> Why does it matter? Suppose Seles was hit by a car instead, or twisted he=
r
> knee and needed a reconstruction. Suppose she just retired. She'd still h=
ave
> been out of the game just the same. Why does it make such a difference th=
at
> a nutter did it for this or that reason, as though he's a sane, rational
> person?

Point is, she WASN'T HIT BE A CAR, she was STABBED by a person that
wanted to
stop her from beating and/or getting ahead of Graff..

The FACTS all back me up.. All you all have is wishful thinking and
conjectures!!

Sorry, that won't wash..


  
Date: 26 Dec 2008 14:14:54
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
cehowardrc51 wrote:
> On Dec 25, 4:31 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
>> Rubbish. A known fact is something that actually happened.
>
> A Known Fact=the stabber stabbed Seles to stop her from beating Graff
> (this is a FACT)
>> Why is the reason given by a nutter relevant?
>
> It is RELEVANT, because HE is the one that cause/did the action..
> Can't get no more RELEVANT than that!
>>
>> Why does it matter? Suppose Seles was hit by a car instead, or twisted her
>> knee and needed a reconstruction. Suppose she just retired. She'd still have
>> been out of the game just the same. Why does it make such a difference that
>> a nutter did it for this or that reason, as though he's a sane, rational
>> person?
>
> Point is, she WASN'T HIT BE A CAR, she was STABBED by a person that
> wanted to
> stop her from beating and/or getting ahead of Graff..
>
> The FACTS all back me up.. All you all have is wishful thinking and
> conjectures!!
>
> Sorry, that won't wash..



er, the fact is the wound was not much more than a paper cup so Seles
has no excuse for staying away more than 1 week.



 
Date: 25 Dec 2008 12:06:10
From: cehowardrc51
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 25, 2:51=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> cehowardrc51 wrote:
> > I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> > It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> > Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> > It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> > from beating Graff..
>
> > I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?
>
> > All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> > Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> > Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that =A0Seles
> > wouldn't have done this or that.
> > History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
> > must have been one super playing person at
> > that time too.
>
> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happened, =
eg;
>
> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
> returned after all);
>
> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>
> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woulda
> faded out early anyway. =A0Many players have come back from adversity to
> become fitter/stronger at far greater age than 21 (eg Agassi, Connors, MN=
).
>
> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certain
> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>
> History would make a bigger deal out of the stabbing had Seles resumed
> her top form, because then we could speculate she missed 10 slams at her
> peak. =A0The fact she couldn't tells history she was fading young like
> many, many other players.
>
> Your attempts to blame it all on Parche are wasted effort. =A0Most top
> analysts are smart & know the overall picture.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ah come on man, that don't even make sense..

Seles was stabbed. Now in order for her to get her RIGHTFUL DUE,
she has to come back!! History will not look at it that way, and you
can
take that to the bank. If she never came back, the stabbing took
something off.
That is a fact. Maybe Graff should have SELF-STABBED herself to make
things even!!

My points, and the facts, have MAJOR credence. The only way they
don't, and that would
be if the stabbing never took place. Then we would have seen what went
on..

Just like if somebody stabbed Tiger Woods down the line, and he never
came back.
And the talk was that Phil Mickleson would have bet him anyway. That
is the same talk that
is going around about Seles vs Graff. Seles HAS to get the BENIFIT of
the doubt!! Because she was
the victim of a plot to further the advance of the Graff. History will
record all of that. And since Tiger Woods
never got stabbed, we can see who is the better between Tiger and
Phil. But conjecture(what we have here)would be
very different. All the comments would be TAINTED behind FAVORTISM.



  
Date: 26 Dec 2008 08:09:14
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
cehowardrc51 wrote:
> On Dec 25, 2:51 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>> cehowardrc51 wrote:
>>> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>>> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>>> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>>> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>>> from beating Graff..
>>> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?
>>> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>>> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>>> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
>>> wouldn't have done this or that.
>>> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
>>> must have been one super playing person at
>>> that time too.
>> Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happened, eg;
>>
>> - Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
>> returned after all);
>>
>> - Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
>> another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;
>>
>> The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
>> only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woulda
>> faded out early anyway. Many players have come back from adversity to
>> become fitter/stronger at far greater age than 21 (eg Agassi, Connors, MN).
>>
>> Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certain
>> Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.
>>
>> History would make a bigger deal out of the stabbing had Seles resumed
>> her top form, because then we could speculate she missed 10 slams at her
>> peak. The fact she couldn't tells history she was fading young like
>> many, many other players.
>>
>> Your attempts to blame it all on Parche are wasted effort. Most top
>> analysts are smart & know the overall picture.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Ah come on man, that don't even make sense..
>
> Seles was stabbed. Now in order for her to get her RIGHTFUL DUE,
> she has to come back!! History will not look at it that way, and you
> can
> take that to the bank. If she never came back, the stabbing took
> something off.
> That is a fact. Maybe Graff should have SELF-STABBED herself to make
> things even!!
>
> My points, and the facts, have MAJOR credence. The only way they
> don't, and that would
> be if the stabbing never took place. Then we would have seen what went
> on..
>
> Just like if somebody stabbed Tiger Woods down the line, and he never
> came back.
> And the talk was that Phil Mickleson would have bet him anyway. That
> is the same talk that
> is going around about Seles vs Graff. Seles HAS to get the BENIFIT of
> the doubt!! Because she was
> the victim of a plot to further the advance of the Graff. History will
> record all of that. And since Tiger Woods
> never got stabbed, we can see who is the better between Tiger and
> Phil. But conjecture(what we have here)would be
> very different. All the comments would be TAINTED behind FAVORTISM.
>


lol what a moron.

Seles may have got some benefit of doubt if she didn't lose 26 16 to
Graf in 1992 Wimbledon final & barely win 62 36 10-8 in FO final.

If Tiger isn't able to resume the game due to his knee injury he will
get no benefit of doubt - sure as fuck Seles doesn't get it either.
Maureen Connolly is a different story of course as she really was
unbeatable, & the players that game after her in next 10 yrs were patsys
so she woulda won 30 or so slams. But Seles? Please.

You can bet Tiger would not be derailed by the same 'injury' inflicted
on Seles... ; )



 
Date: 25 Dec 2008 11:38:50
From: cehowardrc51
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.

It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
from beating Graff..

I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?

All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.

Seles was better, and getting better. Period..

Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
wouldn't have done this or that.
History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
must have been one super playing person at
that time too. IMO, they should have turn the Seles fans loose on the
stabber. That would have been justice!!
Wish I was there!!! :)


  
Date: 26 Dec 2008 08:31:12
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
cehowardrc51 wrote in message ...
>I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
>It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
>Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.

Rubbish. A known fact is something that actually happened.

>It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
>from beating Graff..
>
>I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?

Why is the reason given by a nutter relevant?

>All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
>Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
>Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
>wouldn't have done this or that.
>History will record the reason she was stabbed.

Why does it matter? Suppose Seles was hit by a car instead, or twisted her
knee and needed a reconstruction. Suppose she just retired. She'd still have
been out of the game just the same. Why does it make such a difference that
a nutter did it for this or that reason, as though he's a sane, rational
person?





  
Date: 26 Dec 2008 06:51:40
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
cehowardrc51 wrote:
> I don't know why everybody wants to beat on a DEAD HORSE.
> It is a KNOWN FACT,if that NUTCASE hadn't stabbed Seles,
> Graff wouldn't have won a lot of those slams.
>
> It is a KNOWN fact, that the STABBER, stabbed Seles to STOP HER
> from beating Graff..
>
> I mean, the stabber ADMITTED IT.. What more evidence do you all need?
>
> All this CONJECTURE don't mean dilly squat.
>
> Seles was better, and getting better. Period..
>
> Sheesh, I get pissed everytime somebody talks that chit that Seles
> wouldn't have done this or that.
> History will record the reason she was stabbed. Not only that, Seles
> must have been one super playing person at
> that time too.



Your argument would have some credence if a few obvious things happened, eg;

- Seles came back & resumed winning slams (she was only 21 when she
returned after all);

- Graf didn't beat her 62 61 in a slam final in 1992, & barely lose
another 8-10 in 3rd while still not at her best;


The fact Seles couldn't get back to winning slams even though she was
only 21 & had plenty of yrs in front of her to peak suggests she woulda
faded out early anyway. Many players have come back from adversity to
become fitter/stronger at far greater age than 21 (eg Agassi, Connors, MN).

Tracy Austin, Andrea Jaeger etc all faded while in teens & it's certain
Monica was headed for very early end to her top form like them.

History would make a bigger deal out of the stabbing had Seles resumed
her top form, because then we could speculate she missed 10 slams at her
peak. The fact she couldn't tells history she was fading young like
many, many other players.

Your attempts to blame it all on Parche are wasted effort. Most top
analysts are smart & know the overall picture.







 
Date: 24 Dec 2008 07:32:47
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 24, 12:11=A0pm, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay > wrote:
> <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c71b2e53-3119-4899-a190-bd3ae40dc9df@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 22, 12:53 pm, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Whisper" <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>
> >news:494e0c4b$0$15737$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> > > Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> > >> blanders0...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >>> On Dec 20, 10:29 am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
> > >>>> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >>>>news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.=
com...
> > >>>> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > >>>>> Calimero wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf sa=
id.
> > >>>>>>> "I
> > >>>>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
> > >>>>>>>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
> > >>>>>>> That is some class.
> > >>>>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would
> > >>>>>> have
> > >>>>>> 1
> > >>>>>> or 2 slams more.
> > >>>>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95
> > >>>>>> because
> > >>>>>> of Seles's absence.
> > >>>>>> Max
> > >>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating
> > >>>>> Seles -
> > >>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in
> > >>>>> Wimbledon
> > >>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica i=
s a
> > >>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda w=
on
> > >>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
> > >>>>> lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
> > >>>>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
> > >>>>> clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf would=
a
> > >>>>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your
> > >>>>> word
> > >>>>> for it!
> > >>>>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Se=
les
> > >>>>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in
> > >>>>> 1993
> > >>>>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
> > >>>> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper=
.-
> > >>>> Hide quoted text -
>
> > >>>> - Show quoted text -
>
> > >>> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is eve=
n
> > >>> if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than Gr=
af
> > >>> netting *more* slams with Seles around.
>
> > >> That is classic Whisperse though. Similar to claims he has made that=
if
> > >> Sampras was chasing 15 slams, he would have won a couple of French
> > >> Opens
> > >> and other similar crap he spouts out of habit.
>
> > > Not FO as that would require changing his A-game, but certainly he
> > > woulda
> > > geared up for a few more slams if the record was > 12. If you believe=
he
> > > wouldn't then you'd also believe Fed would be happy to stop now at 13=
.
>
> > Yes it was I who said that Sampras would've won a couple of FO's if he'=
d
> > been chasing 15, I reckon his strategy would've been different and it
> > would've easily been within his capacity.
>
> >But you never said *how* his strategy would have been different, and
> >how this would have guaranteed "easily" winning a couple of FOs -
> >maybe you could explain?
>
> for starters he could pay off linesmen like your mate Fed.

Great response - you obviously have no idea what you are talking about


 
Date: 22 Dec 2008 16:30:52
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 20, 7:35=A0am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> Calimero wrote:
> > On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
> >> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>
> >>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>
> >> That is some class.
>
> > Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
> > or 2 slams more.
> > As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
> > of Seles's absence.
>
> > Max
>
> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
> better player. =A0Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>
> She said she always played tennis to reach perfection rather than set
> records - why else would she stop at 22 slams?

Agreed.


 
Date: 22 Dec 2008 14:38:50
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 22, 12:53=A0pm, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay > wrote:
> "Whisper" <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>
> news:494e0c4b$0$15737$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
>
>
> > Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> >> blanders0...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Dec 20, 10:29 am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
> >>>> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>>news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.co=
m...
> >>>> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Calimero wrote:
> >>>>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said=
.
> >>>>>>> "I
> >>>>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
> >>>>>>>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
> >>>>>>> That is some class.
> >>>>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would ha=
ve
> >>>>>> 1
> >>>>>> or 2 slams more.
> >>>>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 becau=
se
> >>>>>> of Seles's absence.
> >>>>>> Max
> >>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Sele=
s -
> >>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in
> >>>>> Wimbledon
> >>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is =
a
> >>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> >>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
> >>>>> lol. =A0It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
> >>>>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
> >>>>> clairvoyant. =A0It is remarkable, really. =A0Hard to believe Graf w=
oulda
> >>>>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your wo=
rd
> >>>>> for it!
> >>>>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Sele=
s
> >>>>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1=
993
> >>>>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
> >>>> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.-
> >>>> Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >>> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
> >>> if stated as fact. =A0I think my opinion is far more plausible than G=
raf
> >>> netting *more* slams with Seles around.
>
> >> That is classic Whisperse though. Similar to claims he has made that i=
f
> >> Sampras was chasing 15 slams, he would have won a couple of French Ope=
ns
> >> and other similar crap he spouts out of habit.
>
> > Not FO as that would require changing his A-game, but certainly he woul=
da
> > geared up for a few more slams if the record was > 12. =A0If you believ=
e he
> > wouldn't then you'd also believe Fed would be happy to stop now at 13.
>
> Yes it was I who said that Sampras would've won a couple of FO's if he'd
> been chasing 15, I reckon his strategy would've been different and it
> would've easily been within his capacity.

But you never said *how* his strategy would have been different, and
how this would have guaranteed "easily" winning a couple of FOs -
maybe you could explain?



  
Date: 24 Dec 2008 12:11:07
From: Iceberg
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
<gregorawe@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:c71b2e53-3119-4899-a190-bd3ae40dc9df@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 22, 12:53 pm, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay > wrote:
> "Whisper" <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>
> news:494e0c4b$0$15737$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
>
>
> > Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> >> blanders0...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Dec 20, 10:29 am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
> >>>> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>>news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> >>>> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Calimero wrote:
> >>>>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said.
> >>>>>>> "I
> >>>>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
> >>>>>>>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
> >>>>>>> That is some class.
> >>>>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>> 1
> >>>>>> or 2 slams more.
> >>>>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95
> >>>>>> because
> >>>>>> of Seles's absence.
> >>>>>> Max
> >>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating
> >>>>> Seles -
> >>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in
> >>>>> Wimbledon
> >>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
> >>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> >>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
> >>>>> lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
> >>>>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
> >>>>> clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
> >>>>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your
> >>>>> word
> >>>>> for it!
> >>>>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
> >>>>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in
> >>>>> 1993
> >>>>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
> >>>> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.-
> >>>> Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >>> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
> >>> if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than Graf
> >>> netting *more* slams with Seles around.
>
> >> That is classic Whisperse though. Similar to claims he has made that if
> >> Sampras was chasing 15 slams, he would have won a couple of French
> >> Opens
> >> and other similar crap he spouts out of habit.
>
> > Not FO as that would require changing his A-game, but certainly he
> > woulda
> > geared up for a few more slams if the record was > 12. If you believe he
> > wouldn't then you'd also believe Fed would be happy to stop now at 13.
>
> Yes it was I who said that Sampras would've won a couple of FO's if he'd
> been chasing 15, I reckon his strategy would've been different and it
> would've easily been within his capacity.
>
>But you never said *how* his strategy would have been different, and
>how this would have guaranteed "easily" winning a couple of FOs -
>maybe you could explain?

for starters he could pay off linesmen like your mate Fed.




 
Date: 21 Dec 2008 01:52:53
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 21, 10:23=A0am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> Iceberg wrote:
> > <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> >> Calimero wrote:
> >>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "=
I
> >>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
> >>>>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
> >>>> That is some class.
> >>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have =
1
> >>> or 2 slams more.
> >>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
> >>> of Seles's absence.
> >>> Max
> >> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
> >> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledo=
n
> >> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
> >> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> >> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>
> >> lol. =A0It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
> >> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
> >> clairvoyant. =A0It is remarkable, really. =A0Hard to believe Graf woul=
da
> >> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
> >> for it!
>
> >> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
> >> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
> >> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>
> > so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.
>
> I think he's saying I'm not entitled to an opinion....?
>
> Of course it's coulda woulda, but I genuinely believe Graf woulda won
> more slams had Seles not been stabbed. =A0She was gearing up for an
> almighty comeback & woulda beaten Seles silly the way Mac beat Lendl 10
> of 12 matches in '84. =A0As it was the wind was taken out of her sails &
> she deflated in absence of a real challenge.


What some people don't understand is that Steffi loved to play Seles.
Monica's game suited her. Even as #2 she won 3 of 5 matches against #1
Seles after all.

Max


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 23:34:29
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Just what we need, another stupid seles-graf thread started out by the
raja monkey with the graf-stalker max jumping right in :-(


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 22:26:38
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Just what we need, another stupid seles-graf thread started out buy
the raja monkey with the graf-stalker max jumping right in :-(


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 15:34:13
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 21, 12:01=A0am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:43:02 -0800 (PST), Calimero
>
>
>
> <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >On Dec 20, 11:21=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> On Dec 20, 9:57=A0pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.a=
u >
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> > >Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Sele=
s -
> >> > >Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbl=
edon
> >> > >final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is =
a
> >> > >better player. =A0Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda =
won
> >> > >more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>
> >> > Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
> >> > played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdow=
n
> >> > to play against Blake/Ljubicic.
>
> >> LOL - good one.
>
> >No, dumb one.
> >Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl won Wimbledon 18 times.
> >Seles zero times.
>
> So what? Whisper's (and your) point is that Steffi would have had more
> motivation and won more slams, had she played tougher opposition in
> Seles all the time.
>
> And anyway, we were talking about slams, not Wimbledons.


How convenient ...


Max


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 14:43:02
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 20, 11:21=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 20, 9:57=A0pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au>
> > wrote:
>
> > >Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
> > >Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledo=
n
> > >final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
> > >better player. =A0Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> > >more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>
> > Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
> > played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
> > to play against Blake/Ljubicic.
>
> LOL - good one.

No, dumb one.
Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl won Wimbledon 18 times.
Seles zero times.


Max


  
Date: 21 Dec 2008 01:01:59
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:43:02 -0800 (PST), Calimero
<calimero377@gmx.de > wrote:

>On Dec 20, 11:21†pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Dec 20, 9:57†pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > >Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>> > >Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>> > >final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>> > >better player. †Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>> > >more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>
>> > Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
>> > played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
>> > to play against Blake/Ljubicic.
>>
>> LOL - good one.
>
>No, dumb one.
>Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl won Wimbledon 18 times.
>Seles zero times.

So what? Whisper's (and your) point is that Steffi would have had more
motivation and won more slams, had she played tougher opposition in
Seles all the time.

And anyway, we were talking about slams, not Wimbledons.




   
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:32:36
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Sakari Lund wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:43:02 -0800 (PST), Calimero
> <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 20, 11:21 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Dec 20, 9:57 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>>> Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
>>>> played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
>>>> to play against Blake/Ljubicic.
>>> LOL - good one.
>> No, dumb one.
>> Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl won Wimbledon 18 times.
>> Seles zero times.
>
> So what? Whisper's (and your) point is that Steffi would have had more
> motivation and won more slams, had she played tougher opposition in
> Seles all the time.
>
> And anyway, we were talking about slams, not Wimbledons.
>
>


Yes, but Graf has demolished peak Seles despite being in poorest form of
her career & personal problems - ie we have hard evidence of what a
motivated Graf could do to peak Seles. What evidence have you of Fed
beating Borg/Mac?



 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 14:21:43
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 20, 9:57=A0pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
> >Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
> >final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
> >better player. =A0Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> >more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>
> Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
> played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
> to play against Blake/Ljubicic.

LOL - good one.



  
Date: 21 Dec 2008 00:30:34
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:21:43 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Dec 20, 9:57†pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>> >Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>> >final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>> >better player. †Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>> >more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>
>> Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
>> played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
>> to play against Blake/Ljubicic.
>
>LOL - good one.

It was a perfect example of how Whisper can use 100% opposite
arguments, if they just give the answer he wants :-)


   
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:30:40
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Sakari Lund wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:21:43 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Dec 20, 9:57 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>> Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
>>> played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
>>> to play against Blake/Ljubicic.
>> LOL - good one.
>
> It was a perfect example of how Whisper can use 100% opposite
> arguments, if they just give the answer he wants :-)



No it wasn't. Different eras, different players & it's only
speculation Fed could beat those guys based on his record v Blake/Ljubo.



 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 08:39:54
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 20, 5:15=A0pm, blanders0...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 20, 10:29=A0am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > Calimero wrote:
> > > > On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said.=
"I
> > > >> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>
> > > >>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>
> > > >> That is some class.
>
> > > > Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would hav=
e 1
> > > > or 2 slams more.
> > > > As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 becaus=
e
> > > > of Seles's absence.
>
> > > > Max
>
> > > Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles =
-
> > > Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbled=
on
> > > final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
> > > better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> > > more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>
> > >lol. =A0It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
> > >personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
> > >clairvoyant. =A0It is remarkable, really. =A0Hard to believe Graf woul=
da
> > >won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
> > >for it!
>
> > >My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
> > >and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
> > >when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>
> > so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.- Hi=
de quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
> if stated as fact. =A0I think my opinion is far more plausible than Graf
> netting *more* slams with Seles around.


Maybe even 1 or 2 LESS.
But I can't imagine exactly which ones.

Max


  
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:27:09
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Calimero wrote:
> On Dec 20, 5:15 pm, blanders0...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Dec 20, 10:29 am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>> Calimero wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
>>>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>>>>>> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>>>>>> That is some class.
>>>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
>>>>> or 2 slams more.
>>>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
>>>>> of Seles's absence.
>>>>> Max
>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>>> lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
>>>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
>>>> clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
>>>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
>>>> for it!
>>>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
>>>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
>>>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>>> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
>> if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than Graf
>> netting *more* slams with Seles around.
>
>
> Maybe even 1 or 2 LESS.
> But I can't imagine exactly which ones.
>
> Max


It's all speculation once you get into multi yr analysis, but imo most
likely scenario Graf wins 23 slams - but the range could be 19 to 28.



   
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:12:31
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:27:09 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au >
wrote:

>Calimero wrote:
>> On Dec 20, 5:15 pm, blanders0...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Dec 20, 10:29 am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> Calimero wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
>>>>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>>>>>>> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>>>>>>> That is some class.
>>>>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
>>>>>> or 2 slams more.
>>>>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
>>>>>> of Seles's absence.
>>>>>> Max
>>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>>>> lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
>>>>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
>>>>> clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
>>>>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
>>>>> for it!
>>>>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
>>>>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
>>>>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>>>> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
>>> if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than Graf
>>> netting *more* slams with Seles around.
>>
>>
>> Maybe even 1 or 2 LESS.
>> But I can't imagine exactly which ones.
>>
>> Max
>
>
>It's all speculation once you get into multi yr analysis, but imo most
>likely scenario Graf wins 23 slams - but the range could be 19 to 28.


same as federer's then ?


    
Date: 22 Dec 2008 13:02:42
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:27:09 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
> wrote:
>> It's all speculation once you get into multi yr analysis, but imo
>> most likely scenario Graf wins 23 slams - but the range could be 19
>> to 28.
>
>
> same as federer's then ?

2007 - 3 slams
2008 - 1 slam

That's a steep slide. Extrapolating, he'll have to give some slams back this
year.




     
Date: 22 Dec 2008 19:40:03
From: TT
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
DavidW wrote:
> Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:27:09 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>> It's all speculation once you get into multi yr analysis, but imo
>>> most likely scenario Graf wins 23 slams - but the range could be 19
>>> to 28.
>>
>> same as federer's then ?
>
> 2007 - 3 slams
> 2008 - 1 slam
>
> That's a steep slide. Extrapolating, he'll have to give some slams back this
> year.
>

He will be caught for doping probably.


--
"Now I have so many dreams to chase - the French Open, an Olympic
singles gold medal in London in 2012, the Davis Cup for Switzerland"


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 08:15:13
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 20, 10:29=A0am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay > wrote:
> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Calimero wrote:
> > > On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "=
I
> > >> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>
> > >>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>
> > >> That is some class.
>
> > > Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have =
1
> > > or 2 slams more.
> > > As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
> > > of Seles's absence.
>
> > > Max
>
> > Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
> > Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
> > final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
> > better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> > more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>
> >lol. =A0It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
> >personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
> >clairvoyant. =A0It is remarkable, really. =A0Hard to believe Graf woulda
> >won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
> >for it!
>
> >My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
> >and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
> >when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>
> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.- Hide=
quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than Graf
netting *more* slams with Seles around.


  
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:25:33
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
blanders0604@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 20, 10:29 am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
>> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Calimero wrote:
>>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
>>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>>>>> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>>>>> That is some class.
>>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
>>>> or 2 slams more.
>>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
>>>> of Seles's absence.
>>>> Max
>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>> lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
>>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
>>> clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
>>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
>>> for it!
>>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
>>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
>>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
> if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than Graf
> netting *more* slams with Seles around.





Not when you take into consideration 'all' the factors - eg things like
Graf smashing Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon final & just barely losing FO
final 8-10 in 3rd in 1992 - once Graf got her confidence back Seles
woulda been outclassed. Too bad that prick Parche ruined it for fans.



   
Date: 22 Dec 2008 13:05:23
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Whisper wrote:
> blanders0604@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
>> if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than
>> Graf netting *more* slams with Seles around.
>
> Not when you take into consideration 'all' the factors - eg things
> like Graf smashing Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon final & just barely
> losing FO final 8-10 in 3rd in 1992 - once Graf got her confidence
> back Seles woulda been outclassed. Too bad that prick Parche ruined
> it for fans.

Yes, Graf fans suffer endlessly because of Parche.




  
Date: 20 Dec 2008 18:30:10
From: Vari L. Cinicke
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
blanders0604@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 20, 10:29 am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
>> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Calimero wrote:
>>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
>>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>>>>> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>>>>> That is some class.
>>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
>>>> or 2 slams more.
>>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
>>>> of Seles's absence.
>>>> Max
>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>> lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
>>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
>>> clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
>>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
>>> for it!
>>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
>>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
>>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
> if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than Graf
> netting *more* slams with Seles around.

That is classic Whisperse though. Similar to claims he has made that if
Sampras was chasing 15 slams, he would have won a couple of French Opens
and other similar crap he spouts out of habit.

--
Cheers,

vc


   
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:28:37
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> blanders0604@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Dec 20, 10:29 am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
>>> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Calimero wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
>>>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>>>>>> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>>>>>> That is some class.
>>>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
>>>>> or 2 slams more.
>>>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
>>>>> of Seles's absence.
>>>>> Max
>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>>> lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
>>>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
>>>> clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
>>>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
>>>> for it!
>>>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
>>>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
>>>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>>> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.-
>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
>> if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than Graf
>> netting *more* slams with Seles around.
>
> That is classic Whisperse though. Similar to claims he has made that if
> Sampras was chasing 15 slams, he would have won a couple of French Opens
> and other similar crap he spouts out of habit.
>


Not FO as that would require changing his A-game, but certainly he
woulda geared up for a few more slams if the record was > 12. If you
believe he wouldn't then you'd also believe Fed would be happy to stop
now at 13.





    
Date: 22 Dec 2008 12:53:59
From: Iceberg
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
"Whisper" <beaver999@ozemail.com.au > wrote in message
news:494e0c4b$0$15737$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
>> blanders0604@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Dec 20, 10:29 am, "Iceberg" <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
>>>> <blanders0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Calimero wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said.
>>>>>>> "I
>>>>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>>>>>>> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>>>>>>> That is some class.
>>>>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have
>>>>>> 1
>>>>>> or 2 slams more.
>>>>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
>>>>>> of Seles's absence.
>>>>>> Max
>>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in
>>>>> Wimbledon
>>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>>>> lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
>>>>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
>>>>> clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
>>>>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
>>>>> for it!
>>>>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
>>>>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
>>>>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>>>> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.-
>>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> I stated an opinion only, which of course is what his really is even
>>> if stated as fact. I think my opinion is far more plausible than Graf
>>> netting *more* slams with Seles around.
>>
>> That is classic Whisperse though. Similar to claims he has made that if
>> Sampras was chasing 15 slams, he would have won a couple of French Opens
>> and other similar crap he spouts out of habit.
>>
>
>
> Not FO as that would require changing his A-game, but certainly he woulda
> geared up for a few more slams if the record was > 12. If you believe he
> wouldn't then you'd also believe Fed would be happy to stop now at 13.

Yes it was I who said that Sampras would've won a couple of FO's if he'd
been chasing 15, I reckon his strategy would've been different and it
would've easily been within his capacity.




 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 06:35:31
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 20, 7:35=A0am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> Calimero wrote:
> > On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
> >> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>
> >>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>
> >> That is some class.
>
> > Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
> > or 2 slams more.
> > As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
> > of Seles's absence.
>
> > Max
>
> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
> better player. =A0Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.

lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
for it!

My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
when the courts played firm and true throughout.



  
Date: 20 Dec 2008 15:29:28
From: Iceberg
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
<blanders0604@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> Calimero wrote:
> > On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
> >> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>
> >>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>
> >> That is some class.
>
> > Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
> > or 2 slams more.
> > As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
> > of Seles's absence.
>
> > Max
>
> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>
>lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
>personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
>clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
>won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
>for it!
>
>My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
>and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
>when the courts played firm and true throughout.

so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.




   
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:23:36
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Iceberg wrote:
> <blanders0604@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a4a50ba2-f709-4770-9f4e-acc979d101ee@v15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 20, 7:35 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>> Calimero wrote:
>>> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
>>>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>>>> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>>>> That is some class.
>>> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
>>> or 2 slams more.
>>> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
>>> of Seles's absence.
>>> Max
>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>
>> lol. It seems that when woulda-coulda scenarios align with your
>> personal preferences that you go from mere Tier 1 to downright
>> clairvoyant. It is remarkable, really. Hard to believe Graf woulda
>> won *more* total slams without Seles, but I'll have to take your word
>> for it!
>>
>> My own guess is that Graf would have lost a number of slams to Seles
>> and that Seles would have won Wimbledon at least once starting in 1993
>> when the courts played firm and true throughout.
>
> so what you're saying is that you're more clairvoyant than Whisper.
>
>


I think he's saying I'm not entitled to an opinion....?

Of course it's coulda woulda, but I genuinely believe Graf woulda won
more slams had Seles not been stabbed. She was gearing up for an
almighty comeback & woulda beaten Seles silly the way Mac beat Lendl 10
of 12 matches in '84. As it was the wind was taken out of her sails &
she deflated in absence of a real challenge.





 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 04:23:01
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 18, 8:26=A0pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>
> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>
> That is some class.


Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
or 2 slams more.
As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
of Seles's absence.

Max


  
Date: 22 Dec 2008 14:37:08
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 22, 5:40=A0pm, TT <g...@Olympics.org > wrote:
> DavidW wrote:
> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> >> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:27:09 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au>
> >> wrote:
> >>> It's all speculation once you get into multi yr analysis, but imo
> >>> most likely scenario Graf wins 23 slams - but the range could be 19
> >>> to 28.
>
> >> same as federer's then ?
>
> > 2007 - 3 slams
> > 2008 - 1 slam
>
> > That's a steep slide. Extrapolating, he'll have to give some slams back=
this
> > year.
>
> He will be caught for doping probably.

What a stupid post ...




  
Date: 22 Dec 2008 04:55:29
From:
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Dec 22, 2:02=A0am, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided > wrote:
> Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> > On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:27:09 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au>
> > wrote:
> >> It's all speculation once you get into multi yr analysis, but imo
> >> most likely scenario Graf wins 23 slams - but the range could be 19
> >> to 28.
>
> > same as federer's then ?
>
> 2007 - 3 slams
> 2008 - 1 slam
>
> That's a steep slide. Extrapolating, he'll have to give some slams back t=
his
> year.

Yes, if Federer plays long enough he should end up with 0 slams ...


   
Date: 22 Dec 2008 13:04:13
From: Vari L. Cinicke
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 22, 2:02 am, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
>> Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:27:09 +1100, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>> It's all speculation once you get into multi yr analysis, but imo
>>>> most likely scenario Graf wins 23 slams - but the range could be 19
>>>> to 28.
>>> same as federer's then ?
>> 2007 - 3 slams
>> 2008 - 1 slam
>>
>> That's a steep slide. Extrapolating, he'll have to give some slams back this
>> year.
>
> Yes, if Federer plays long enough he should end up with 0 slams ...

Guess DavidW's prediction that Federer would win 5 slams in 2005 went
wrong somehow.

--
Cheers,

vc


  
Date: 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Calimero wrote:
> On Dec 18, 8:26 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "I hope you're watching and I hope you're coming back," Graf said. "I
>> really miss you and I think everybody else does, too."
>>
>> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-827054.html
>>
>> That is some class.
>
>
> Well, she knows that without Seles being absent she maybe would have 1
> or 2 slams more.
> As Whisper has pointed out Steffi lost motivation in 1994/95 because
> of Seles's absence.
>
> Max


Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.


She said she always played tennis to reach perfection rather than set
records - why else would she stop at 22 slams?





   
Date: 20 Dec 2008 23:57:07
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au >
wrote:

>Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.

Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
to play against Blake/Ljubicic.


    
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:29:41
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
Sakari Lund wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>
> Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
> played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
> to play against Blake/Ljubicic.



There is no evidence Fed would have much success v those guys.
Fedfucker analysis is invalid.



     
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:13:46
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:29:41 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au >
wrote:

>Sakari Lund wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>
>> Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
>> played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
>> to play against Blake/Ljubicic.
>
>
>
>There is no evidence Fed would have much success v those guys.
>Fedfucker analysis is invalid.


Federer 1 Sampras 0 at the world championships is good enough for the
experts so its good enough for us.


      
Date: 21 Dec 2008 19:27:35
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Steffi Graf to Seles

"Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com > wrote in message
news:hmcsk4d0q8la672h9ao4m87lit10i2r2aa@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:29:41 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>Sakari Lund wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:35:14 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, beating up Aranxta/Sabatini is a big letdown from beating Seles -
>>>> Steffi was much more excited when she thrashed Seles 62 61 in Wimbledon
>>>> final than when she creamed Aranxta 60 62 in AO final as Monica is a
>>>> better player. Had Seles played all the way through Graf woulda won
>>>> more slams - same deal with Mac when Borg quit.
>>>
>>> Can you even imagine how many slams Federer would have won, had he
>>> played Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Connors and Lendl? It is a big letdown
>>> to play against Blake/Ljubicic.
>>
>>
>>
>>There is no evidence Fed would have much success v those guys.
>>Fedfucker analysis is invalid.
>
>
> Federer 1 Sampras 0 at the world championships is good enough for the
> experts so its good enough for us.


Do you think it's Borg 1 McEnroe 1 at the world championships or is it 5
McEnroe 3?