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Date: 20 Jan 2009 16:30:11
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Tomic has a night match

It is a huge occasion for him.

OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match. And BTW
based on the early season form of Djokovic, he might be in trouble
with Chardy, who is a dangerous guy.




 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 12:45:56
From: Helen Edith Stephenson
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
In article <6qnbn4l5rmjq3reb0ncoa1e0auaq3t6i4k@4ax.com >, Sakari Lund
<sakari.lund@welho.com > writes
>
>It is a huge occasion for him.
[snip]

I was a bit surprised when I saw that schedule, and don't think it could
have happened with a woman that young. The WTA has rules about players
under age restrictions playing in matches starting that late.

However, Tomic is not part of the WTA and the Grand Slam tournaments are
conducted by the ITF anyway, so maybe the rules are different for either
of those reasons.

As other posters have commented, it is cooler playing the night match,
and for that reason, at the AO it might be kinder on a young player to
give them a late match than expect them to play in the heat of the day.

Also, with a Grand Slam, you get a day off the next day, so making a
young player go on court so late is less of a problem than expecting
them to do it in a regular tour match.

Helen

Helen Edith Stephenson <helen at baronmoss dot demon dot co dot uk >
--
(I'm sure you can figure out what I mean!)
Website: http://www.wuronga.me.uk/helen/index.html
Blog: http://blog.360.yahoo.com/helenedithuk


  
Date: 25 Jan 2009 17:11:36
From: Helen Edith Stephenson
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
In article <te2dnRYqXcF7neTUnZ2dnUVZ8iyWnZ2d@giganews.com >,
wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk writes
>In article <2AU3DGzEkxdJFwgP@baronmoss.demon.co.uk>,
>helen@nospam.demon.co.uk (Helen Edith Stephenson) wrote:
>
>>
>> In article <6qnbn4l5rmjq3reb0ncoa1e0auaq3t6i4k@4ax.com>, Sakari Lund
>> <sakari.lund@welho.com> writes
>> >
>> >It is a huge occasion for him.
>> [snip]
>>
>> I was a bit surprised when I saw that schedule, and don't think it
>> could
>> have happened with a woman that young. The WTA has rules about
>> players
>> under age restrictions playing in matches starting that late.
>
>I don't recall that rule.

Click on the Tour Rules link at the bottom of the WTA Site and then
select Age Eligibility from the list of available documents.

On page 11/16 of that document (and I suspect on page 219 of the full
rules document) you will find:

3. Player Activity On-site at Tournaments
a. Evening Play
The WTA and WTA Tour Tournaments shall use best efforts not to
schedule any player under the age of 16 years for a match after
9:00 p.m. tournament local time.

I haven't gone looking, but I think there's a similar document on the
ITF site.

So the WTA don't explicitly forbid it, just require that best efforts
are made to avoid it.

It got pretty silly today with grown men not getting on court until 11pm
to play best of five. By the time they've played and cooled down, that
must be seriously disruptive to their sleep and therefore to the
preparation of the winner for the next round.

Eurosport commentary said that if Dokic didn't win today that there
would be no more womens night matches this tournament. However, Dokic
*did* win, so do we have another stupid schedule like today's, or do
they put a match on the Hisense Arena as they did on Friday night? They
would be gambling that it was going to be a long match, but they could
schedule a doubles match to follow to make it worth the entrance ticket
price. It would surely be fairer to the men not to be facing the
possibility of coming on court so late to play best of five.

>> However, Tomic is not part of the WTA and the Grand Slam
>> tournaments are
>> conducted by the ITF anyway, so maybe the rules are different for
>> either
>> of those reasons.
>>
>> As other posters have commented, it is cooler playing the night
>> match,
>> and for that reason, at the AO it might be kinder on a young player
>> to
>> give them a late match than expect them to play in the heat of the
>> day.
>
>But the big reason was simply that he's young and Australian and the next
>biggest thing locally to Hewitt, and they don't have many home players to
>cheer.
>
>wg

I agree entirely. That's undoubtedly why it was done. It also gave Tomic
a taste of what a night match on a big court is like, which might stand
him in good stead if he develops into the player that the Australians
are hoping he will. (And of course that his mad dad doesn't get him
banned in the meantime... <g >)

Helen

Helen Edith Stephenson <helen at baronmoss dot demon dot co dot uk >
--
(I'm sure you can figure out what I mean!)
Website: http://www.wuronga.me.uk/helen/index.html
Blog: http://blog.360.yahoo.com/helenedithuk


   
Date: 28 Jan 2009 08:29:25
From:
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
In article <71Fke2GI1JfJFwSX@baronmoss.demon.co.uk >,
helen@nospam.demon.co.uk (Helen Edith Stephenson) wrote:

>
> Click on the Tour Rules link at the bottom of the WTA Site and then
> select Age Eligibility from the list of available documents.
>
> On page 11/16 of that document (and I suspect on page 219 of the
> full
> rules document) you will find:
>
> 3. Player Activity On-site at Tournaments
> a. Evening Play
> The WTA and WTA Tour Tournaments shall use best efforts not to
> schedule any player under the age of 16 years for a match after
> 9:00 p.m. tournament local time.
>
> I haven't gone looking, but I think there's a similar document on
> the
> ITF site.

ah, yes.

>
> So the WTA don't explicitly forbid it, just require that best
> efforts
> are made to avoid it.

Sure. But the AER also mean that there aren't any players in the top ten
who are 16 or younger any more. I'm not sure there's even one in the top
50. The new rising players aren't that young any more - Cibulkova 19,
Cornet 18, Azarenka 19, Kleybanova 18. So I doubt that has any impact on
the scheduling of night matches at this year's AO.

I think it's more that the Slams are used to scheduling women's matches
first as a warm-up while people are still arriving, and if you have a top
star against a low-ranked player they expect it to be an hour max. They
need to adjust for the new competitive era. :)

>
> It got pretty silly today with grown men not getting on court until
> 11pm
> to play best of five. By the time they've played and cooled down,
> that
> must be seriously disruptive to their sleep and therefore to the
> preparation of the winner for the next round.
>
> Eurosport commentary said that if Dokic didn't win today that there
> would be no more womens night matches this tournament. However,
> Dokic
> *did* win, so do we have another stupid schedule like today's, or do
> they put a match on the Hisense Arena as they did on Friday night?
> They
> would be gambling that it was going to be a long match, but they
> could
> schedule a doubles match to follow to make it worth the entrance
> ticket
> price. It would surely be fairer to the men not to be facing the
> possibility of coming on court so late to play best of five.

Not disagreeing. Though even a bo5 match can get cut short. Remember the
year a player stepped on a ball during the warm-up and had to default?

>
> >> However, Tomic is not part of the WTA and the Grand Slam
> >> tournaments are
> >> conducted by the ITF anyway, so maybe the rules are different for
> >> either
> >> of those reasons.
> >>
> >> As other posters have commented, it is cooler playing the night
> >> match,
> >> and for that reason, at the AO it might be kinder on a young
> player
> >> to
> >> give them a late match than expect them to play in the heat of
> the
> >> day.
> >
> >But the big reason was simply that he's young and Australian and
> the next
> >biggest thing locally to Hewitt, and they don't have many home
> players to
> >cheer.
> >
> >wg
>
> I agree entirely. That's undoubtedly why it was done. It also gave
> Tomic
> a taste of what a night match on a big court is like, which might
> stand
> him in good stead if he develops into the player that the
> Australians
> are hoping he will. (And of course that his mad dad doesn't get him
> banned in the meantime... <g>)

Yeah. Pam Shriver wrote a lot in her 1985 about the insane parents she was
seeing and was baffled at how they were treating their kids and at their
readiness to quit their jobs and make their kids' lives the center of
their existence. And it has gotten much, much worse since then. Her own
parents were apparently remarkably sane about the whole thing, even after
she made the US Open final at 16.

Of course, it wasn't clear then just how much money there was going to be.

wg


  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 17:27:34
From:
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
In article <2AU3DGzEkxdJFwgP@baronmoss.demon.co.uk >,
helen@nospam.demon.co.uk (Helen Edith Stephenson) wrote:

>
> In article <6qnbn4l5rmjq3reb0ncoa1e0auaq3t6i4k@4ax.com>, Sakari Lund
> <sakari.lund@welho.com> writes
> >
> >It is a huge occasion for him.
> [snip]
>
> I was a bit surprised when I saw that schedule, and don't think it
> could
> have happened with a woman that young. The WTA has rules about
> players
> under age restrictions playing in matches starting that late.

I don't recall that rule.

>
> However, Tomic is not part of the WTA and the Grand Slam
> tournaments are
> conducted by the ITF anyway, so maybe the rules are different for
> either
> of those reasons.
>
> As other posters have commented, it is cooler playing the night
> match,
> and for that reason, at the AO it might be kinder on a young player
> to
> give them a late match than expect them to play in the heat of the
> day.

But the big reason was simply that he's young and Australian and the next
biggest thing locally to Hewitt, and they don't have many home players to
cheer.

wg


 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 06:10:02
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
Sakari Lund wrote:
> It is a huge occasion for him.
>


He won the junior final last yr in a night match in front of 10,000 so
has some idea what to expect.


  
Date: 20 Jan 2009 11:54:23
From: xamigax@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
On 20 jan, 20:10, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> Sakari Lund wrote:
> > It is a huge occasion for him.
>
> He won the junior final last yr in a night match in front of 10,000 so
> has some idea what to expect.


Finally a post from you I like without any restriction :-) !
Facts.
Keep it this way, & you'll have something to be proud of (in terms of
behaviour) at the end of the year.


Share & Enjoy,
Manolo


 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 06:01:17
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
Sakari Lund wrote:
> It is a huge occasion for him.
>
> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match.

AFAIK, there's no tradition of giving the defending champion night matches.
They just pick whatever match they think has the most local appeal. Hewitt has
played plenty of night matches before. Anyway, many players don't like playing
at night, so it's not necessarily a sought-after schedule.





  
Date: 20 Jan 2009 22:01:51
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:01:17 +1100, "DavidW" <no@email.provided >
wrote:

>Sakari Lund wrote:
>> It is a huge occasion for him.
>>
>> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match.
>
>AFAIK, there's no tradition of giving the defending champion night matches.
>They just pick whatever match they think has the most local appeal. Hewitt has
>played plenty of night matches before. Anyway, many players don't like playing
>at night, so it's not necessarily a sought-after schedule.

No, I didn't mean that there is a tradition. Just that Federer and
Nadal had the first two night matches, so I would think it is fair to
give the defending champion a night match too. In these conditions I
think most players would like to play at night.



   
Date: 21 Jan 2009 18:44:04
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
Sakari Lund wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:01:17 +1100, "DavidW" <no@email.provided>
> wrote:
>
>> Sakari Lund wrote:
>>> It is a huge occasion for him.
>>>
>>> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match.
>> AFAIK, there's no tradition of giving the defending champion night matches.
>> They just pick whatever match they think has the most local appeal. Hewitt has
>> played plenty of night matches before. Anyway, many players don't like playing
>> at night, so it's not necessarily a sought-after schedule.
>
> No, I didn't mean that there is a tradition. Just that Federer and
> Nadal had the first two night matches, so I would think it is fair to
> give the defending champion a night match too. In these conditions I
> think most players would like to play at night.
>


The most interesting match to Aussie viewers is of course the Tomic
match. Djokovic playing routine 2nd rd means nothing by comparison. TV
ratings will be many times greater.





    
Date: 21 Jan 2009 11:00:12
From: Dave Hazelwood
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:44:04 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au >
wrote:

>Sakari Lund wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:01:17 +1100, "DavidW" <no@email.provided>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sakari Lund wrote:
>>>> It is a huge occasion for him.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match.
>>> AFAIK, there's no tradition of giving the defending champion night matches.
>>> They just pick whatever match they think has the most local appeal. Hewitt has
>>> played plenty of night matches before. Anyway, many players don't like playing
>>> at night, so it's not necessarily a sought-after schedule.
>>
>> No, I didn't mean that there is a tradition. Just that Federer and
>> Nadal had the first two night matches, so I would think it is fair to
>> give the defending champion a night match too. In these conditions I
>> think most players would like to play at night.
>>
>
>
>The most interesting match to Aussie viewers is of course the Tomic
>match. Djokovic playing routine 2nd rd means nothing by comparison. TV
>ratings will be many times greater.
>
>


australians like watching losers ?


   
Date: 21 Jan 2009 12:27:12
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
Sakari Lund wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:01:17 +1100, "DavidW" <no@email.provided>
> wrote:
>
>> Sakari Lund wrote:
>>> It is a huge occasion for him.
>>>
>>> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match.
>>
>> AFAIK, there's no tradition of giving the defending champion night
>> matches. They just pick whatever match they think has the most local
>> appeal. Hewitt has played plenty of night matches before. Anyway,
>> many players don't like playing at night, so it's not necessarily a
>> sought-after schedule.
>
> No, I didn't mean that there is a tradition. Just that Federer and
> Nadal had the first two night matches, so I would think it is fair to
> give the defending champion a night match too. In these conditions I
> think most players would like to play at night.

Today it will only get to 29 degrees, so no problem.





 
Date: 20 Jan 2009 14:50:08
From: Vari L. Cinicke
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
Sakari Lund wrote:
> It is a huge occasion for him.
>
> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match. And BTW
> based on the early season form of Djokovic, he might be in trouble
> with Chardy, who is a dangerous guy.

The crowd should be a riot.

Can Tomic make his presence felt against someone who likes fast courts
and who can serve big and attack the net well? I will be even more
impressed with Tomic if he can take a set against Muller.

--
Cheers,

vc


  
Date: 20 Jan 2009 17:13:29
From:
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
On Jan 20, 7:23=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 20, 2:58 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:50:08 GMT, "Vari L. Cinicke"
>
> >> <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >>> Sakari Lund wrote:
> >>>> It is a huge occasion for him.
> >>>> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match. And BT=
W
> >>>> based on the early season form of Djokovic, he might be in trouble
> >>>> with Chardy, who is a dangerous guy.
> >>> The crowd should be a riot.
> >>> Can Tomic make his presence felt against someone who likes fast court=
s
> >>> and who can serve big and attack the net well? I will be even more
> >>> impressed with Tomic if he can take a set against Muller.
> >> M=FCller is a very inconsistent player. Once he beat Roddick at USO, a=
nd
> >> then he had a good USO last year, but other than he hasn't done
> >> anything. Most of the time he has bad results. And he had a very long
> >> match in the 1st round.
>
> > Yeah, although Tomic has admitted that Muller plays a game which he
> > doesn't like - i.e. SV.
>
> > You're right, Muller is inconsistent - it wouldn't be a massive
> > surprise if Tomic won.
>
> It should be, given this is Tomic's 3rd career match & Muller made q/f
> in last slam & kid is 16.

But we've just said that Muller is very inconsistent - what was the
last result he had before the USO?

Of course it would be a big surprise if Tomic won, but not a massive
one e.g. Tomic beating a top 10 player



   
Date: 21 Jan 2009 19:10:16
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 20, 7:23 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>> gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 20, 2:58 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:50:08 GMT, "Vari L. Cinicke"
>>>> <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>>>> Sakari Lund wrote:
>>>>>> It is a huge occasion for him.
>>>>>> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match. And BTW
>>>>>> based on the early season form of Djokovic, he might be in trouble
>>>>>> with Chardy, who is a dangerous guy.
>>>>> The crowd should be a riot.
>>>>> Can Tomic make his presence felt against someone who likes fast courts
>>>>> and who can serve big and attack the net well? I will be even more
>>>>> impressed with Tomic if he can take a set against Muller.
>>>> Müller is a very inconsistent player. Once he beat Roddick at USO, and
>>>> then he had a good USO last year, but other than he hasn't done
>>>> anything. Most of the time he has bad results. And he had a very long
>>>> match in the 1st round.
>>> Yeah, although Tomic has admitted that Muller plays a game which he
>>> doesn't like - i.e. SV.
>>> You're right, Muller is inconsistent - it wouldn't be a massive
>>> surprise if Tomic won.
>> It should be, given this is Tomic's 3rd career match & Muller made q/f
>> in last slam & kid is 16.
>
> But we've just said that Muller is very inconsistent - what was the
> last result he had before the USO?
>
> Of course it would be a big surprise if Tomic won, but not a massive
> one e.g. Tomic beating a top 10 player
>


The kid is 16 & is playing his 3rd match ever on tour - think again.



  
Date: 20 Jan 2009 07:47:08
From:
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
On Jan 20, 2:58=A0pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:50:08 GMT, "Vari L. Cinicke"
>
> <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >Sakari Lund wrote:
> >> It is a huge occasion for him.
>
> >> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match. And BTW
> >> based on the early season form of Djokovic, he might be in trouble
> >> with Chardy, who is a dangerous guy.
>
> >The crowd should be a riot.
>
> >Can Tomic make his presence felt against someone who likes fast courts
> >and who can serve big and attack the net well? I will be even more
> >impressed with Tomic if he can take a set against Muller.
>
> M=FCller is a very inconsistent player. Once he beat Roddick at USO, and
> then he had a good USO last year, but other than he hasn't done
> anything. Most of the time he has bad results. And he had a very long
> match in the 1st round.

Yeah, although Tomic has admitted that Muller plays a game which he
doesn't like - i.e. SV.

You're right, Muller is inconsistent - it wouldn't be a massive
surprise if Tomic won.




   
Date: 21 Jan 2009 06:23:45
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2:58 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:50:08 GMT, "Vari L. Cinicke"
>>
>> <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>> Sakari Lund wrote:
>>>> It is a huge occasion for him.
>>>> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match. And BTW
>>>> based on the early season form of Djokovic, he might be in trouble
>>>> with Chardy, who is a dangerous guy.
>>> The crowd should be a riot.
>>> Can Tomic make his presence felt against someone who likes fast courts
>>> and who can serve big and attack the net well? I will be even more
>>> impressed with Tomic if he can take a set against Muller.
>> Müller is a very inconsistent player. Once he beat Roddick at USO, and
>> then he had a good USO last year, but other than he hasn't done
>> anything. Most of the time he has bad results. And he had a very long
>> match in the 1st round.
>
> Yeah, although Tomic has admitted that Muller plays a game which he
> doesn't like - i.e. SV.
>
> You're right, Muller is inconsistent - it wouldn't be a massive
> surprise if Tomic won.
>
>


It should be, given this is Tomic's 3rd career match & Muller made q/f
in last slam & kid is 16.



  
Date: 20 Jan 2009 16:58:40
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Tomic has a night match
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:50:08 GMT, "Vari L. Cinicke"
<cinicke@netscape.net > wrote:

>Sakari Lund wrote:
>> It is a huge occasion for him.
>>
>> OTOH, the defending champion still doesn't get a night match. And BTW
>> based on the early season form of Djokovic, he might be in trouble
>> with Chardy, who is a dangerous guy.
>
>The crowd should be a riot.
>
>Can Tomic make his presence felt against someone who likes fast courts
>and who can serve big and attack the net well? I will be even more
>impressed with Tomic if he can take a set against Muller.

Müller is a very inconsistent player. Once he beat Roddick at USO, and
then he had a good USO last year, but other than he hasn't done
anything. Most of the time he has bad results. And he had a very long
match in the 1st round.