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Date: 03 Feb 2009 07:08:31
From:
Subject: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece

=93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93He did
not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=94

So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
Nadal rather than just winging it ...







 
Date: 04 Feb 2009 01:33:51
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 07:08:31 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:

>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
>“To me, Roger just did not have a plan,” Toni told The Times. “He did
>not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
>he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.”
>
>So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
>Nadal rather than just winging it ...

Uncle Toni has a comment on Federer now every day?

Anyway, there is too much talk about plans. He didn't need any better
plans in this match. He just needed to serve better.



  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 18:55:31
From: ew
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
Amen to that.


"Sakari Lund" <sakari.lund@welho.com > wrote in message
news:o0lho4hqgegph7upvr3tb8b5ofk1ns30vs@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 07:08:31 -0800 (PST), gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Uncle Toni has a comment on Federer now every day?
>
> Anyway, there is too much talk about plans. He didn't need any better
> plans in this match. He just needed to serve better.
>



 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 21:13:49
From: zcarenow@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 11:04=A0pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> arnab.z@gmail wrote:
> > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> >> =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93H=
e did
> >> not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> >> he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=
=94
>
> >> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> >> Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> No we haven't. =A0The game Fed played woulda beaten everyone else - it's
> just not good enough v Rafa.

I totally agree. I doubt anyone could've been Fed last Sunday the way
he played. He has to hit more spectacular winners against Nadal
vs .anyone else. Rafa just doesn't give up!!


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 19:31:46
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
Federer has to improve himself further, or maybe I should say 'regain
his 2007 fitness'. Now, his court movements and reactions are worse. I
think Federer should go for the kind of training that Verdasco did in
December'08. Only this way he can play with a stronger belief during
the match. In the Australian Open final, his first serves percentage
was way too low. If you look back at the 2007 Wimbledon final, Federer
would not have won the fifth set if he didn't serve that many aces.
The win has a lot to do with both mental and physical. For now,
Federer has a deficit in both areas, especially but not only against
Nadal.


 
Date: 04 Feb 2009 04:33:13
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 4, 6:56=A0am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:10:10 GMT, "Iceberg"
>
>
>
>
>
> <big_bad_iceb...@moc.oohay> wrote:
> >"Whisper" <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> >news:498921d5$0$18781$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> >> arnab.z@gmail wrote:
> >>> On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> >>>> =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =
=93He did
> >>>> not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly an=
d
> >>>> he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=
=94
>
> >>>> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> >>>> Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> >>> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> >>> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> >> No we haven't. =A0The game Fed played woulda beaten everyone else - it=
's
> >> just not good enough v Rafa.
>
> >Exactly! why this isn't obvious to others is beyond me.
>
> So he would certainly have beaten Murray with that game, serving like
> that?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Everybody *knows* everything on this ng. Chock full of gurus.


 
Date: 04 Feb 2009 01:06:34
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 4, 3:58=A0am, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided > wrote:
> arnab.z@gmail wrote:
> > On Feb 3, 9:54 pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing
> >> on any given day. If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his
> >> groundies are measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away
> >> the baseline bashing plan fairly quick. Too much topspin of Fed's
> >> groundies and he simply can't sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard
> >> he hits them...and he was hitting very hard and accurately during
> >> the match. So much wasted energy...
>
> >> On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he
> >> was, inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. If you can't hold your
> >> serve all the plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> >> <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com..=
.
> >> On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> >>>> =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =
=93He
> >>>> did not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too
> >>>> quickly and he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the
> >>>> head for him.=94
>
> >>>> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> >>>> Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> >>> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> >>> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> >> But what is the right plan?
>
> >> Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean
> >> longer rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> >> Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> >> What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> >> backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> >> There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> >> he?
>
> > It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
> > Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> > Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> > against Nadal.
>
> Because he got close but still lost? He was close at Wimbledon too and co=
uld
> have won it. And he was close at AO until the 5th set, which he pretty mu=
ch
> threw away with UEs.

No, I was talking about the attitude displayed by Federer in that
match. He needs to bring that attitude to a Nadal match.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 21:58:00
From: roger5
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 11:13=A0pm, Aranci...@selin.com wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:13=A0am, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 3, 10:08=A0am, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93=
He did
> > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=
=94
>
> > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > I think he summarized it "Rafael was too strong in the head for him"
>
> Rafa is a mental giant. Not a mental midget like
> Birdshit.............................

Hey, what do you call Verdasco throwing in two doubles in the final
game in that semi?


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 21:45:32
From: roger5
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
Hey Arnab, gotta tell you I liked that post from you about Federer
needing to release his frustration and let the animal out. Might just
do the trick, I believe. The matches between these two have all been
so mental.

arnab.z@gmail wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:08=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
> >
> > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93He=
did
> > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=94
> >
> > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 14:53:52
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 1:25=A0pm, ghell666 <matt.tip...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 3 Feb, 17:32, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 12:26=A0pm, ghell666 <matt.tip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 3 Feb, 17:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 4:51=A0pm, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 3, 11:34=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is =
playing on any
> > > > > > > given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his g=
roundies are
> > > > > > > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the base=
line bashing
> > > > > > > plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and=
he simply can't
> > > > > > > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he =
was hitting
> > > > > > > very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted =
energy...
>
> > > > > > > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match c=
ause he was,
> > > > > > > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold y=
our serve all the
> > > > > > > plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> > > > > > > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > >news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegro=
ups.com...
> > > > > > > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> w=
rote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article56443=
61.ece
>
> > > > > > > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told Th=
e Times. =93He did
> > > > > > > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too=
quickly and
> > > > > > > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the he=
ad for him.=94
>
> > > > > > > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan=
to play
> > > > > > > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > > > > > > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas ou=
t there
> > > > > > > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> > > > > > > But what is the right plan?
>
> > > > > > > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that me=
an longer
> > > > > > > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> > > > > > > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> > > > > > > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > > > > > > backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> > > > > > > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? =
Should
> > > > > > > he?
>
> > > > > > It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan t=
o beat
> > > > > > Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> > > > > > Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 ma=
tch
> > > > > > against Nadal.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > One thing Fed did extremely well in that IO match was serve well.
> > > > > Realistically, any tactical changes are
> > > > > probably going to be ineffectual if he serves as poorly as he did=
on
> > > > > Sunday.
>
> > > > To do that Federer needs to groove his serve to become a consistent
> > > > weapon so that it doesn't let him down so badly when he needs it. T=
hat
> > > > means lots of practice and also hitting it properly in tuneups, not
> > > > rolling it in.
>
> > > > > That's not to say there aren't adjustments to make. I think he ca=
n
> > > > > take more risks running around the backhand on second serves and
> > > > > gamble more with the returns if he's having trouble breaking earl=
y on.
> > > > > But then again Fed did a good job on return in that AO match. I t=
hink
> > > > > he had 6 service breaks and also had 6 break points late in the t=
hird
> > > > > that he didn't covert. That proved, I think, that the last Wimble=
don
> > > > > match was mainly a matter of him not coverting the chances that c=
ame
> > > > > his way and that no drastic changes in return strategy were neces=
sary.
>
> > > > But the 6 break points he missed were the key to the match - had he
> > > > taken one of them he would have served for 2 sets to 1 (let's forge=
t
> > > > how badly he was serving). When he really needed it, Federer couldn=
't
> > > > win a break point and on pretty much all of them he just knocked a
> > > > return back without threatening. Under pressure he reverted to a sa=
fe
> > > > return strategy and it never seems to work.
>
> > > > > Also I think the subtle shift in pressure can help Fed and he sho=
uld
> > > > > use that to his advantage. Let's face it, Rafa holds Slams on eve=
ry
> > > > > surface right now. He's 22 and at the peak of his career so Fed n=
eeds
> > > > > to go into these matches with the mindset of the dangerous underd=
og
> > > > > capable of taking something away from Nadal, not the guy with
> > > > > everything to lose in these matches.
>
> > > > Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's st=
ill
> > > > playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.
>
> > > Moonball
>
> > > Until he master that he will never beat him..- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Have you ever seen anyone beat Nadal by moonballing?
>
> I have never seen ANYONE attempt too
>
> no one mooballs any more period ..
>
> I mean high loopers deep - the likes of which Kurten somtimes hit ..
> and Muster , Mancini esp Mancini- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Imo, some drastic change in strategy might be in order if Fed were
getting demolished in his matches with Nadal.
But with the exception of last year's FO final, that has not been the
case. In fact in this most recent match Fed broke Nadal six times
(with chances to break a couple more times) and won more overall
points over the course of a 4 hour match despite having one of the
worst serving days he's ever had in a big match.

Also, you have to take into account the personality of the player. Fed
is an attacking player and he has been his entire life. Of course he's
a great defensive player as well and that's what makes him so special.
I'm not suggesting that he just keep doing what he's been doing and
just pray it works next time, but there are other things he can tinker
with - maybe try to chip and charge, maybe more drop shots, maybe
throw caution to the wind and run around the second serve and try
blasting some return winners.

But moonballing is not the answer.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 10:43:23
From: wkhedr
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 1:38=A0pm, undecided <cost...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 11:51=A0am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 11:34=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playin=
g on any
> > > > given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundi=
es are
> > > > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline b=
ashing
> > > > plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he si=
mply can't
> > > > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hi=
tting
> > > > very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted energy=
...
>
> > > > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause h=
e was,
> > > > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold your se=
rve all the
> > > > plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> > > > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.co=
m...
> > > > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > > > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Time=
s. =93He did
> > > > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quick=
ly and
> > > > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for=
him.=94
>
> > > > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to pl=
ay
> > > > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > > > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out ther=
e
> > > > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> > > > But what is the right plan?
>
> > > > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean lon=
ger
> > > > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> > > > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> > > > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > > > backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> > > > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> > > > he?
>
> > > It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
> > > Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> > > Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> > > against Nadal.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > One thing Fed did extremely well in that IO match was serve well.
> > Realistically, any tactical changes are
> > probably going to be ineffectual if he serves as poorly as he did on
> > Sunday.
>
> > That's not to say there aren't adjustments to make. I think he can
> > take more risks running around the backhand on second serves and
> > gamble more with the returns if he's having trouble breaking early on.
> > But then again Fed did a good job on return in that AO match. I think
> > he had 6 service breaks and also had 6 break points late in the third
> > that he didn't covert. That proved, I think, that the last Wimbledon
> > match was mainly a matter of him not coverting the chances that came
> > his way and that no drastic changes in return strategy were necessary.
>
> > Also I think the subtle shift in pressure can help Fed and he should
> > use that to his advantage. Let's face it, Rafa holds Slams on every
> > surface right now. He's 22 and at the peak of his career so Fed needs
> > to go into these matches with the mindset of the dangerous underdog
> > capable of taking something away from Nadal, not the guy with
> > everything to lose in these matches.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Let's not forget Wimby 2007. Only reason Fed won that final was
> because of his serving. Live by the sword, die by the sword.- Hide quoted=
text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Serve is part of the game like FH and BH and Nadal would have had no
chance winning Wimbledon or AO if he did not improve his serving.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 10:42:05
From: ghell666
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On 3 Feb, 18:06, cernunn...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 3, 12:26=A0pm, ghell666 <matt.tip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 3 Feb, 17:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's stil=
l
> > > playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.
>
> > Moonball
>
> > Until he master that he will never beat him..
>
> Yes! That's it. Federer needs to hire Andrea Jaeger as his coach. She
> drove many to madness with the moonball.

im NOT JOKING , its not easy to deal with deep moon balls - you either
moon it back , or take it on the rise and hit to the lines like Agassi
used to do in his prime ( he was the best at this ) thats why he used
to kick ass on clay .. i.e. before over bulking..



 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 10:38:10
From: undecided
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 11:51=A0am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 3, 11:34=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing =
on any
> > > given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundies=
are
> > > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline bas=
hing
> > > plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he simp=
ly can't
> > > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hitt=
ing
> > > very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted energy..=
.
>
> > > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he =
was,
> > > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold your serv=
e all the
> > > plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> > > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com.=
..
> > > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times.=
=93He did
> > > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly=
and
> > > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for h=
im.=94
>
> > > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> > > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> > > But what is the right plan?
>
> > > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longe=
r
> > > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> > > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> > > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > > backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> > > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> > > he?
>
> > It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
> > Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> > Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> > against Nadal.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> One thing Fed did extremely well in that IO match was serve well.
> Realistically, any tactical changes are
> probably going to be ineffectual if he serves as poorly as he did on
> Sunday.
>
> That's not to say there aren't adjustments to make. I think he can
> take more risks running around the backhand on second serves and
> gamble more with the returns if he's having trouble breaking early on.
> But then again Fed did a good job on return in that AO match. I think
> he had 6 service breaks and also had 6 break points late in the third
> that he didn't covert. That proved, I think, that the last Wimbledon
> match was mainly a matter of him not coverting the chances that came
> his way and that no drastic changes in return strategy were necessary.
>
> Also I think the subtle shift in pressure can help Fed and he should
> use that to his advantage. Let's face it, Rafa holds Slams on every
> surface right now. He's 22 and at the peak of his career so Fed needs
> to go into these matches with the mindset of the dangerous underdog
> capable of taking something away from Nadal, not the guy with
> everything to lose in these matches.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Let's not forget Wimby 2007. Only reason Fed won that final was
because of his serving. Live by the sword, die by the sword.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 10:25:32
From: ghell666
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On 3 Feb, 17:32, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 3, 12:26=A0pm, ghell666 <matt.tip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 3 Feb, 17:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 3, 4:51=A0pm, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 11:34=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>
> > > > > On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is pl=
aying on any
> > > > > > given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his gro=
undies are
> > > > > > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseli=
ne bashing
> > > > > > plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and h=
e simply can't
> > > > > > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he wa=
s hitting
> > > > > > very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted en=
ergy...
>
> > > > > > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cau=
se he was,
> > > > > > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold you=
r serve all the
> > > > > > plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> > > > > > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroup=
s.com...
> > > > > > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361=
.ece
>
> > > > > > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The =
Times. =93He did
> > > > > > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too q=
uickly and
> > > > > > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head=
for him.=94
>
> > > > > > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan t=
o play
> > > > > > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > > > > > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out =
there
> > > > > > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> > > > > > But what is the right plan?
>
> > > > > > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean=
longer
> > > > > > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> > > > > > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> > > > > > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > > > > > backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> > > > > > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Sh=
ould
> > > > > > he?
>
> > > > > It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to =
beat
> > > > > Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> > > > > Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 matc=
h
> > > > > against Nadal.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > One thing Fed did extremely well in that IO match was serve well.
> > > > Realistically, any tactical changes are
> > > > probably going to be ineffectual if he serves as poorly as he did o=
n
> > > > Sunday.
>
> > > To do that Federer needs to groove his serve to become a consistent
> > > weapon so that it doesn't let him down so badly when he needs it. Tha=
t
> > > means lots of practice and also hitting it properly in tuneups, not
> > > rolling it in.
>
> > > > That's not to say there aren't adjustments to make. I think he can
> > > > take more risks running around the backhand on second serves and
> > > > gamble more with the returns if he's having trouble breaking early =
on.
> > > > But then again Fed did a good job on return in that AO match. I thi=
nk
> > > > he had 6 service breaks and also had 6 break points late in the thi=
rd
> > > > that he didn't covert. That proved, I think, that the last Wimbledo=
n
> > > > match was mainly a matter of him not coverting the chances that cam=
e
> > > > his way and that no drastic changes in return strategy were necessa=
ry.
>
> > > But the 6 break points he missed were the key to the match - had he
> > > taken one of them he would have served for 2 sets to 1 (let's forget
> > > how badly he was serving). When he really needed it, Federer couldn't
> > > win a break point and on pretty much all of them he just knocked a
> > > return back without threatening. Under pressure he reverted to a safe
> > > return strategy and it never seems to work.
>
> > > > Also I think the subtle shift in pressure can help Fed and he shoul=
d
> > > > use that to his advantage. Let's face it, Rafa holds Slams on every
> > > > surface right now. He's 22 and at the peak of his career so Fed nee=
ds
> > > > to go into these matches with the mindset of the dangerous underdog
> > > > capable of taking something away from Nadal, not the guy with
> > > > everything to lose in these matches.
>
> > > Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's stil=
l
> > > playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.
>
> > Moonball
>
> > Until he master that he will never beat him..- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Have you ever seen anyone beat Nadal by moonballing?

I have never seen ANYONE attempt too

no one mooballs any more period ..

I mean high loopers deep - the likes of which Kurten somtimes hit ..
and Muster , Mancini esp Mancini


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 10:13:40
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 10:13=A0am, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:08=A0am, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93He=
did
> > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=94
>
> > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> I think he summarized it "Rafael was too strong in the head for him"

Rafa is a mental giant. Not a mental midget like
Birdshit.............................


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 10:06:26
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 12:26=A0pm, ghell666 <matt.tip...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 3 Feb, 17:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's still
> > playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.
>
> Moonball
>
> Until he master that he will never beat him..

Yes! That's it. Federer needs to hire Andrea Jaeger as his coach. She
drove many to madness with the moonball.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 09:36:51
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
> Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's still
> playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.

Federer should listen to Uncle Toni and Nadal. They build Federer up
huge and make Nadal look like the underdog. That puts all the pressure
on Federer. Federer is letting his ego get in the way. He got
indignant when the (idiot) pundits told him that Murray was the
favorite and tried to beat Murray off-court. Huge pressure right
there. He could just have said that he agreed that Murray was the
favorite and that he would try to do his best. Uncle Toni and Nadal
are probably sincere in their respectful way of talking about Federer
but it is also great gamesmanship. It works for them.
Agassi used to talk a lot about how great his opponents were and how
lucky he was to win against them. The pundits even joked about it.
Maybe, Agassi was too humble but Federer is not humble enough.
Somewhere in the middle would be just right :)


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 09:32:20
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 12:26=A0pm, ghell666 <matt.tip...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 3 Feb, 17:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 4:51=A0pm, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 3, 11:34=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is play=
ing on any
> > > > > given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groun=
dies are
> > > > > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline=
bashing
> > > > > plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he =
simply can't
> > > > > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was =
hitting
> > > > > very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted ener=
gy...
>
> > > > > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause=
he was,
> > > > > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold your =
serve all the
> > > > > plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> > > > > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.=
com...
> > > > > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.e=
ce
>
> > > > > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Ti=
mes. =93He did
> > > > > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too qui=
ckly and
> > > > > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head f=
or him.=94
>
> > > > > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to =
play
> > > > > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > > > > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out th=
ere
> > > > > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> > > > > But what is the right plan?
>
> > > > > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean l=
onger
> > > > > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> > > > > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> > > > > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > > > > backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> > > > > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Shou=
ld
> > > > > he?
>
> > > > It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to be=
at
> > > > Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> > > > Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> > > > against Nadal.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > One thing Fed did extremely well in that IO match was serve well.
> > > Realistically, any tactical changes are
> > > probably going to be ineffectual if he serves as poorly as he did on
> > > Sunday.
>
> > To do that Federer needs to groove his serve to become a consistent
> > weapon so that it doesn't let him down so badly when he needs it. That
> > means lots of practice and also hitting it properly in tuneups, not
> > rolling it in.
>
> > > That's not to say there aren't adjustments to make. I think he can
> > > take more risks running around the backhand on second serves and
> > > gamble more with the returns if he's having trouble breaking early on=
.
> > > But then again Fed did a good job on return in that AO match. I think
> > > he had 6 service breaks and also had 6 break points late in the third
> > > that he didn't covert. That proved, I think, that the last Wimbledon
> > > match was mainly a matter of him not coverting the chances that came
> > > his way and that no drastic changes in return strategy were necessary=
.
>
> > But the 6 break points he missed were the key to the match - had he
> > taken one of them he would have served for 2 sets to 1 (let's forget
> > how badly he was serving). When he really needed it, Federer couldn't
> > win a break point and on pretty much all of them he just knocked a
> > return back without threatening. Under pressure he reverted to a safe
> > return strategy and it never seems to work.
>
> > > Also I think the subtle shift in pressure can help Fed and he should
> > > use that to his advantage. Let's face it, Rafa holds Slams on every
> > > surface right now. He's 22 and at the peak of his career so Fed needs
> > > to go into these matches with the mindset of the dangerous underdog
> > > capable of taking something away from Nadal, not the guy with
> > > everything to lose in these matches.
>
> > Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's still
> > playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.
>
> Moonball
>
> Until he master that he will never beat him..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Have you ever seen anyone beat Nadal by moonballing?


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 09:26:29
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 11:17=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:

>
> Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's still
> playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.

It's his ego. He is the best in his mind. Nadal is the pretender.
Hopefully the crying afterwards is an indication of him realizing he
is the chaser now. Rafa has won 3 of the last 4 slams, he has won the
remaining one. Rafa has gone ahead, it's time for him to catch up.

It will be interesting to see Federer's reaction to this loss. Will he
keep playing half-arsed tennis in tune ups? Or will he go back to
smart workhorse mode a la 2004-2005?

He shouldn't be too disappointed with this loss. He will need to keep
giving himself the chance to get to slam finals. He still can win any
one, two or three of the rest of the slams. It's a matter of time
until he wins another slam.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 09:26:25
From: ghell666
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On 3 Feb, 17:17, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 3, 4:51=A0pm, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 11:34=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playin=
g on any
> > > > given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundi=
es are
> > > > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline b=
ashing
> > > > plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he si=
mply can't
> > > > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hi=
tting
> > > > very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted energy=
...
>
> > > > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause h=
e was,
> > > > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold your se=
rve all the
> > > > plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> > > > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.co=
m...
> > > > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > > > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Time=
s. =93He did
> > > > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quick=
ly and
> > > > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for=
him.=94
>
> > > > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to pl=
ay
> > > > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > > > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out ther=
e
> > > > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> > > > But what is the right plan?
>
> > > > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean lon=
ger
> > > > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> > > > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> > > > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > > > backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> > > > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> > > > he?
>
> > > It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
> > > Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> > > Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> > > against Nadal.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > One thing Fed did extremely well in that IO match was serve well.
> > Realistically, any tactical changes are
> > probably going to be ineffectual if he serves as poorly as he did on
> > Sunday.
>
> To do that Federer needs to groove his serve to become a consistent
> weapon so that it doesn't let him down so badly when he needs it. That
> means lots of practice and also hitting it properly in tuneups, not
> rolling it in.
>
>
>
> > That's not to say there aren't adjustments to make. I think he can
> > take more risks running around the backhand on second serves and
> > gamble more with the returns if he's having trouble breaking early on.
> > But then again Fed did a good job on return in that AO match. I think
> > he had 6 service breaks and also had 6 break points late in the third
> > that he didn't covert. That proved, I think, that the last Wimbledon
> > match was mainly a matter of him not coverting the chances that came
> > his way and that no drastic changes in return strategy were necessary.
>
> But the 6 break points he missed were the key to the match - had he
> taken one of them he would have served for 2 sets to 1 (let's forget
> how badly he was serving). When he really needed it, Federer couldn't
> win a break point and on pretty much all of them he just knocked a
> return back without threatening. Under pressure he reverted to a safe
> return strategy and it never seems to work.
>
> > Also I think the subtle shift in pressure can help Fed and he should
> > use that to his advantage. Let's face it, Rafa holds Slams on every
> > surface right now. He's 22 and at the peak of his career so Fed needs
> > to go into these matches with the mindset of the dangerous underdog
> > capable of taking something away from Nadal, not the guy with
> > everything to lose in these matches.
>
> Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's still
> playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.

Moonball

Until he master that he will never beat him..



 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 09:24:33
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 5:23=A0pm, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 12:17=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's still
> > playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.- Hide quoted text =
-
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> It's all set now, he lost it all.

:-)



 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 09:23:41
From: wkhedr
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 12:17=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's still
> playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It's all set now, he lost it all.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 09:17:32
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 4:51=A0pm, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 3, 11:34=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing =
on any
> > > given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundies=
are
> > > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline bas=
hing
> > > plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he simp=
ly can't
> > > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hitt=
ing
> > > very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted energy..=
.
>
> > > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he =
was,
> > > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold your serv=
e all the
> > > plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> > > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com.=
..
> > > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times.=
=93He did
> > > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly=
and
> > > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for h=
im.=94
>
> > > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> > > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> > > But what is the right plan?
>
> > > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longe=
r
> > > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> > > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> > > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > > backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> > > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> > > he?
>
> > It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
> > Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> > Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> > against Nadal.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> One thing Fed did extremely well in that IO match was serve well.
> Realistically, any tactical changes are
> probably going to be ineffectual if he serves as poorly as he did on
> Sunday.

To do that Federer needs to groove his serve to become a consistent
weapon so that it doesn't let him down so badly when he needs it. That
means lots of practice and also hitting it properly in tuneups, not
rolling it in.

>
> That's not to say there aren't adjustments to make. I think he can
> take more risks running around the backhand on second serves and
> gamble more with the returns if he's having trouble breaking early on.
> But then again Fed did a good job on return in that AO match. I think
> he had 6 service breaks and also had 6 break points late in the third
> that he didn't covert. That proved, I think, that the last Wimbledon
> match was mainly a matter of him not coverting the chances that came
> his way and that no drastic changes in return strategy were necessary.

But the 6 break points he missed were the key to the match - had he
taken one of them he would have served for 2 sets to 1 (let's forget
how badly he was serving). When he really needed it, Federer couldn't
win a break point and on pretty much all of them he just knocked a
return back without threatening. Under pressure he reverted to a safe
return strategy and it never seems to work.

> Also I think the subtle shift in pressure can help Fed and he should
> use that to his advantage. Let's face it, Rafa holds Slams on every
> surface right now. He's 22 and at the peak of his career so Fed needs
> to go into these matches with the mindset of the dangerous underdog
> capable of taking something away from Nadal, not the guy with
> everything to lose in these matches.

Agreed. Federer should let Nadal take all the pressure, but he's still
playing as if he is the one with everything to lose.



 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 08:51:01
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 11:34=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing on=
any
> > given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundies a=
re
> > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline bashi=
ng
> > plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he simply=
can't
> > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hittin=
g
> > very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted energy...
>
> > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he wa=
s,
> > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold your serve =
all the
> > plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =
=93He did
> > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly a=
nd
> > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him=
.=94
>
> > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> > But what is the right plan?
>
> > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longer
> > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> > he?
>
> It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
> Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> against Nadal.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

One thing Fed did extremely well in that IO match was serve well.
Realistically, any tactical changes are
probably going to be ineffectual if he serves as poorly as he did on
Sunday.

That's not to say there aren't adjustments to make. I think he can
take more risks running around the backhand on second serves and
gamble more with the returns if he's having trouble breaking early on.
But then again Fed did a good job on return in that AO match. I think
he had 6 service breaks and also had 6 break points late in the third
that he didn't covert. That proved, I think, that the last Wimbledon
match was mainly a matter of him not coverting the chances that came
his way and that no drastic changes in return strategy were necessary.

Also I think the subtle shift in pressure can help Fed and he should
use that to his advantage. Let's face it, Rafa holds Slams on every
surface right now. He's 22 and at the peak of his career so Fed needs
to go into these matches with the mindset of the dangerous underdog
capable of taking something away from Nadal, not the guy with
everything to lose in these matches.


  
Date: 03 Feb 2009 14:14:08
From: Javier Gonzalez
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
jasoncatlin1971@gmail.com wrote:
> Also I think the subtle shift in pressure can help Fed and he should
> use that to his advantage. Let's face it, Rafa holds Slams on every
> surface right now. He's 22 and at the peak of his career so Fed needs
> to go into these matches with the mindset of the dangerous underdog
> capable of taking something away from Nadal, not the guy with
> everything to lose in these matches.

He should take a page from the Rafa book, and have that "I don't care if you
are #1, currently hold n+1 slams, are talked up as the best talent ever. I
will beat you" attitude.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 08:38:14
From: GOAT
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 4:34 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:54 pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing on=
any
> > given day. If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundies are
> > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline bashi=
ng
> > plan fairly quick. Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he simply c=
an't
> > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hittin=
g
> > very hard and accurately during the match. So much wasted energy...
>
> > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he wa=
s,
> > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. If you can't hold your serve al=
l the
> > plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =
=93He did
> > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly a=
nd
> > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him=
.=94
>
> > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> > But what is the right plan?
>
> > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longer
> > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> > he?
>
> It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
> Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> against Nadal.

he still lost that match !


  
Date: 03 Feb 2009 11:47:44
From: Wikking
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
GOAT wrote:
> On Feb 3, 4:34 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 3, 9:54 pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing on any
>>> given day. If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundies are
>>> measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline bashing
>>> plan fairly quick. Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he simply can't
>>> sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hitting
>>> very hard and accurately during the match. So much wasted energy...
>>> On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he was,
>>> inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. If you can't hold your serve all the
>>> plans in the world are hopeless...
>>> <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>>>>> “To me, Roger just did not have a plan,” Toni told The Times. “He did
>>>>> not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
>>>>> he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.”
>>>>> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
>>>>> Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>>>> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
>>>> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>>> But what is the right plan?
>>> Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longer
>>> rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>>> Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>>> What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
>>> backhands, etc etc, ?
>>> There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
>>> he?
>> It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
>> Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>>
>> Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
>> against Nadal.
>
> he still lost that match !

True, but Roger hasn't appeared to be fit since his Mono episode.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 08:34:35
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com > wrote:
> Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing on a=
ny
> given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundies are
> measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline bashing
> plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he simply c=
an't
> sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hitting
> very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted energy...
>
> On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he was,
> inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold your serve al=
l the
> plans in the world are hopeless...
>
> <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93=
He did
> > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=
=94
>
> > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> But what is the right plan?
>
> Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longer
> rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> he?

It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.

Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
against Nadal.


  
Date: 03 Feb 2009 23:02:07
From: Richard Eich
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
arnab.zaheen@gmail.com wrote...
> On Feb 3, 9:54=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing on=
any
> > given day. =A0If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundies a=
re
> > measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline bashi=
ng
> > plan fairly quick. =A0Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he simply=
can't
> > sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hittin=
g
> > very hard and accurately during the match. =A0So much wasted energy...
> >
> > On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he wa=
s,
> > inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. =A0If you can't hold your serve =
all the
> > plans in the world are hopeless...
> >
> > <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
> >
> > > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =
=93He did
> > > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly a=
nd
> > > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him=
.=94
> >
> > > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
> >
> > > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> > > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
> >
> > But what is the right plan?
> >
> > Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longer
> > rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
> >
> > Many people say he should be more aggressive.
> >
> > What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> > backhands, etc etc, ?
> >
> > There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> > he?
>=20
> It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
> Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>=20
> Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> against Nadal.

I think he might learn a thing or two from Murray as well. I think=20
Murray's the craftiest player on the men's tour right now.

--=20
A fight starts when a man reaches the limits of his intelligence.


  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 08:58:36
From: DavidW
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
arnab.z@gmail wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:54 pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing
>> on any given day. If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his
>> groundies are measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away
>> the baseline bashing plan fairly quick. Too much topspin of Fed's
>> groundies and he simply can't sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard
>> he hits them...and he was hitting very hard and accurately during
>> the match. So much wasted energy...
>>
>> On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he
>> was, inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. If you can't hold your
>> serve all the plans in the world are hopeless...
>>
>> <gregor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>>
>>>> “To me, Roger just did not have a plan,” Toni told The Times. “He
>>>> did not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too
>>>> quickly and he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the
>>>> head for him.”
>>
>>>> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
>>>> Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>>
>>> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
>>> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>>
>> But what is the right plan?
>>
>> Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean
>> longer rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>>
>> Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>>
>> What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
>> backhands, etc etc, ?
>>
>> There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
>> he?
>
> It's not in our hands. We cannot come up with "the right plan to beat
> Nadal" by brainstorming on rst. It's for Federer to figure out.
>
> Personally I think Federer should look back at his Rome 2006 match
> against Nadal.

Because he got close but still lost? He was close at Wimbledon too and could
have won it. And he was close at AO until the 5th set, which he pretty much
threw away with UEs.





 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 07:46:23
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 10:36=A0am, Fan <Turnagain...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 4:08=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93He=
did
> > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=94
>
> > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> Federer used to have a grat serve. What happened?

Like Fed said in the post-match interview, the serve is a difficult
weapon to count on. One day you've got the
rhythm and serve great (as he did against Roddick in the semis, or
against Rafa at 07 Wimby) and another day your rhythm's off and you
serve 50% like he did on Sunday. Realistically, he needs his serve to
be clicking to beat Rafa at this point of their careers. If he serves
his best - say 65-70% - and plays as well in the rest of the game as
he did on Sunday I see no reason why he can't have a big win over Rafa
later this year.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 07:40:15
From: wkhedr
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 10:32=A0am, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 3, 3:24=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 3, 9:08=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93=
He did
> > > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> > > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=
=94
>
> > > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> > Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> > against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> But what is the right plan?
>
> Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longer
> rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)
>
> Many people say he should be more aggressive.
>
> What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
> backhands, etc etc, ?
>
> There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
> he?

The problem is he is trying things against Nadal that he did not
master in other matches.
If he is planning to go for winners on every shot against Nadal, he
just can't go and do it for the first time against Nadal. He has to
practice it, in his practice, in all of his matches, etc.
He has to be willing to lose matches to master it.
The same applies to S/V, chip/charge, etc.
These are not options, these are different games, they need to be
mastered.


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 07:36:17
From: Fan
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 4:08=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93He d=
id
> not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=94
>
> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> Nadal rather than just winging it ...

Federer used to have a grat serve. What happened?


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 07:35:45
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 3:29=A0pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com > wrote:
> Well, I'm far from an Uncle Toni fan but credit to where it is due...a
> simple and accurate summary of the match...
> An accurate summary of all their matches in fact...
>

If you're not talking about the "strong in the head" bit, then this
does not make sense.

Federer was pilloried for lacking aggression in those FO finals when
he tried to compete with Nadal in long rallies.
He was then pilloried for being too reckless when he went for his
shots and missed.

What is he to do?





  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 16:05:44
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
gregorawe@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 3, 3:29 pm, "ew" <yik7...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Well, I'm far from an Uncle Toni fan but credit to where it is due...a
>> simple and accurate summary of the match...
>> An accurate summary of all their matches in fact...
>>
>
> If you're not talking about the "strong in the head" bit, then this
> does not make sense.
>
> Federer was pilloried for lacking aggression in those FO finals when
> he tried to compete with Nadal in long rallies.
> He was then pilloried for being too reckless when he went for his
> shots and missed.
>
> What is he to do?
>
>
>


Just do his best. If he loses then give Rafa full *unqualified* praise.




 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 07:32:56
From:
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 3:24=A0pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:08=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93He=
did
> > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=94
>
> > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.

But what is the right plan?

Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longer
rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)

Many people say he should be more aggressive.

What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
backhands, etc etc, ?

There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
he?







  
Date: 03 Feb 2009 10:54:04
From: ew
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
Obviously the "plan" has to adjust according to how Nadal is playing on any
given day. If he (Nadal) is healthy, moving well and his groundies are
measured and falling in then it's safe to throw away the baseline bashing
plan fairly quick. Too much topspin of Fed's groundies and he simply can't
sneak them by Nadal no matter how hard he hits them...and he was hitting
very hard and accurately during the match. So much wasted energy...

On the other hand...to simplify matters, Fed lost the match cause he was,
inexplicably, serving like Dementieva. If you can't hold your serve all the
plans in the world are hopeless...

<gregorawe@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:18e67121-d6eb-4366-ae25-e7122574d238@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 3, 3:24 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > “To me, Roger just did not have a plan,” Toni told The Times. “He did
> > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.”
>
> > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.

But what is the right plan?

Uncle Toni thinks he should play more patiently (does that mean longer
rallies and how many hours would their matches now take?)

Many people say he should be more aggressive.

What about more serve-volley, or chip-and-charge, more slice
backhands, etc etc, ?

There are many plans out there - has Federer tried them all? Should
he?







 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 10:29:05
From: ew
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
Well, I'm far from an Uncle Toni fan but credit to where it is due...a
simple and accurate summary of the match...
An accurate summary of all their matches in fact...

<gregorawe@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:d48c2477-0112-4b2c-b89d-2f4fef77ef79@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece

“To me, Roger just did not have a plan,” Toni told The Times. “He did
not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.”

So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
Nadal rather than just winging it ...





 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 07:29:37
From: wkhedr
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 10:24=A0am, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:08=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> > =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93He=
did
> > not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> > he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=94
>
> > So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> > Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.

So what plan can he have?


 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 07:24:02
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 9:08=A0pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93He d=
id
> not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=94
>
> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> Nadal rather than just winging it ...

Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.


  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 16:04:19
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
arnab.z@gmail wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>>
>> “To me, Roger just did not have a plan,” Toni told The Times. “He did
>> not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
>> he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.”
>>
>> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
>> Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>
> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.



No we haven't. The game Fed played woulda beaten everyone else - it's
just not good enough v Rafa.



   
Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:10:10
From: Iceberg
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
"Whisper" <beaver999@ozemail.com.au > wrote in message
news:498921d5$0$18781$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> arnab.z@gmail wrote:
>> On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>>>
>>> “To me, Roger just did not have a plan,” Toni told The Times. “He did
>>> not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
>>> he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.”
>>>
>>> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
>>> Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>>
>> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
>> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>
> No we haven't. The game Fed played woulda beaten everyone else - it's
> just not good enough v Rafa.

Exactly! why this isn't obvious to others is beyond me.




    
Date: 04 Feb 2009 13:56:48
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:10:10 GMT, "Iceberg"
<big_bad_iceberg@moc.oohay > wrote:

>"Whisper" <beaver999@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>news:498921d5$0$18781$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> arnab.z@gmail wrote:
>>> On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>>>>
>>>> “To me, Roger just did not have a plan,” Toni told The Times. “He did
>>>> not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
>>>> he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.”
>>>>
>>>> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
>>>> Nadal rather than just winging it ...
>>>
>>> Of course. It's obvious. Federer just seems out of ideas out there
>>> against Nadal. We have seen this so many times now.
>>
>> No we haven't. The game Fed played woulda beaten everyone else - it's
>> just not good enough v Rafa.
>
>Exactly! why this isn't obvious to others is beyond me.

So he would certainly have beaten Murray with that game, serving like
that?



 
Date: 03 Feb 2009 07:13:20
From: wkhedr
Subject: Re: Uncle Toni: Federer did not have a plan
On Feb 3, 10:08=A0am, gregor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5644361.ece
>
> =93To me, Roger just did not have a plan,=94 Toni told The Times. =93He d=
id
> not want to rally and kept trying to finish the point too quickly and
> he made so many mistakes. Rafael was too strong in the head for him.=94
>
> So Uncle Toni also thinks that Federer should have a plan to play
> Nadal rather than just winging it ...

I think he summarized it "Rafael was too strong in the head for him"