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Date: 13 Feb 2009 22:20:50
From: Petter Solbu
Subject: Why doesn't ATP track UEs/winners in stats?
I am just curious... seems strange when they are counting them in all
ATP events.

PS.




 
Date: 13 Feb 2009 20:53:41
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Why doesn't ATP track UEs/winners in stats?
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:20:50 +0100, Petter Solbu
<pettermann1984@hotmail.com > wrote:

>I am just curious... seems strange when they are counting them in all
>ATP events.

At most ATP tournaments, those stats are kept only on the stadium
court.

-- Larry



 
Date: 13 Feb 2009 13:26:53
From: robin
Subject: Re: Why doesn't ATP track UEs/winners in stats?
On 13 Feb, 21:20, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I am just curious... seems strange when they are counting them in all
> ATP events.
>
> PS.

I guess because they prefer to stick to purely objective stats.


  
Date: 13 Feb 2009 16:26:19
From: andrew.reys@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why doesn't ATP track UEs/winners in stats?
On Feb 13, 3:59 pm, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> andrew.r...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Feb 13, 2:02 pm, MBDunc <micha...@mail.suomi.net> wrote:
> >> On 13 helmi, 23:44, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> On Feb 13, 1:26 pm, robin <robinson.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 13 Feb, 21:20, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> I am just curious... seems strange when they are counting them in all
> >>>>> ATP events.
> >>>>> PS.
> >>>> I guess because they prefer to stick to purely objective stats.
> >>> Yeah - winners/UE will depend on the tournament you're playing, and
> >>> are not called with universal consistency.
> >> Indeed.
>
> >> It is not objective stat. On fast courts you happen to have more
> >> winners. On slow courts you happen to have more unforced errors.
>
> > Even beyond that, standards for what is an unforced or forced error
> > will vary between tournaments. It's a little ridiculous.
>
> Still, I would like them to track it. It is better to know what someone
> meant was an unforced error rather not knowing anything.
>
> PS.

But how valuable is that when an unforced error from one tournament is
a forced error at another tournament? I mean, on a general level, I
agree, because ultimately the ratio's are informative. But there are
plenty of times when I look at the stats after a match and the UE/
winner count makes no sense whatsoever.


   
Date: 14 Feb 2009 02:03:25
From: Petter Solbu
Subject: Re: Why doesn't ATP track UEs/winners in stats?
andrew.reys@gmail.com wrote:
> But how valuable is that when an unforced error from one tournament is
> a forced error at another tournament? I mean, on a general level, I
> agree, because ultimately the ratio's are informative. But there are
> plenty of times when I look at the stats after a match and the UE/
> winner count makes no sense whatsoever.

Well, if you know the stats you can evaluate them yourself based on
surface, other stats from same tournament etc. It can of course still be
misleading, but I would rather have that information than being without
it. Most often I think those stats are useful. When each tournament
track it, I see no reason why ATP cannot also do the same (maybe
informing that these are subjective stats).

PS.


  
Date: 13 Feb 2009 15:54:31
From: andrew.reys@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why doesn't ATP track UEs/winners in stats?
On Feb 13, 2:02 pm, MBDunc <micha...@mail.suomi.net > wrote:
> On 13 helmi, 23:44, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 13, 1:26 pm, robin <robinson.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 13 Feb, 21:20, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I am just curious... seems strange when they are counting them in all
> > > > ATP events.
>
> > > > PS.
>
> > > I guess because they prefer to stick to purely objective stats.
>
> > Yeah - winners/UE will depend on the tournament you're playing, and
> > are not called with universal consistency.
>
> Indeed.
>
> It is not objective stat. On fast courts you happen to have more
> winners. On slow courts you happen to have more unforced errors.

Even beyond that, standards for what is an unforced or forced error
will vary between tournaments. It's a little ridiculous.


   
Date: 14 Feb 2009 00:59:12
From: Petter Solbu
Subject: Re: Why doesn't ATP track UEs/winners in stats?
andrew.reys@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 13, 2:02 pm, MBDunc <micha...@mail.suomi.net> wrote:
>> On 13 helmi, 23:44, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 13, 1:26 pm, robin <robinson.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 13 Feb, 21:20, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I am just curious... seems strange when they are counting them in all
>>>>> ATP events.
>>>>> PS.
>>>> I guess because they prefer to stick to purely objective stats.
>>> Yeah - winners/UE will depend on the tournament you're playing, and
>>> are not called with universal consistency.
>> Indeed.
>>
>> It is not objective stat. On fast courts you happen to have more
>> winners. On slow courts you happen to have more unforced errors.
>
> Even beyond that, standards for what is an unforced or forced error
> will vary between tournaments. It's a little ridiculous.

Still, I would like them to track it. It is better to know what someone
meant was an unforced error rather not knowing anything.

PS.


  
Date: 13 Feb 2009 14:02:41
From: MBDunc
Subject: Re: Why doesn't ATP track UEs/winners in stats?
On 13 helmi, 23:44, "andrew.r...@gmail.com" <andrew.r...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Feb 13, 1:26 pm, robin <robinson.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 13 Feb, 21:20, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I am just curious... seems strange when they are counting them in all
> > > ATP events.
>
> > > PS.
>
> > I guess because they prefer to stick to purely objective stats.
>
> Yeah - winners/UE will depend on the tournament you're playing, and
> are not called with universal consistency.

Indeed.

It is not objective stat. On fast courts you happen to have more
winners. On slow courts you happen to have more unforced errors.

And there is very blurred line whether a error is forced/unforced.

.mikko


  
Date: 13 Feb 2009 13:44:36
From: andrew.reys@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why doesn't ATP track UEs/winners in stats?
On Feb 13, 1:26 pm, robin <robinson.n...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 13 Feb, 21:20, Petter Solbu <pettermann1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am just curious... seems strange when they are counting them in all
> > ATP events.
>
> > PS.
>
> I guess because they prefer to stick to purely objective stats.

Yeah - winners/UE will depend on the tournament you're playing, and
are not called with universal consistency.