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Date: 29 Jan 2009 23:36:30
From: stephenj
Subject: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
Greatest doubles team of all time does it again, squashing hantuchova
and a tiny asian chick.

nice job, ladies!


--

"Look at any 'democratic' country, like America.
In these countries the real business of 'state' is carried
on by departments, staffs, and bureaus...Parliaments
are only places where chattering goes on with the purpose
of fooling the 'common people'."


- V.I. Lenin




 
Date: 30 Jan 2009 12:38:25
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:36:30 -0600, stephenj <sjex@cox.com > wrote:

>Greatest doubles team of all time does it again, squashing hantuchova
>and a tiny asian chick.

That "tiny asian chick" is one of the most fun women's doubles player to watch
on the court, any time, any place. And one of the best pair of hands at the net
you'll ever see.

-- Larry


  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 15:38:04
From: mimus
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:38:25 -0500, pltrgyst wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:36:30 -0600, stephenj <sjex@cox.com> wrote:
>
>> Greatest doubles team of all time does it again, squashing hantuchova
>> and a tiny asian chick.
>
> That "tiny asian chick" is one of the most fun women's doubles player to
> watch on the court, any time, any place. And one of the best pair of
> hands at the net you'll ever see.

And that particular up-'n'-down pair were in the finals, you know.

Too bad, I was hoping they'd win, just to see a shot of 'em trying to hold
the trophy together.

--

Take a deep breath, take a walk, cool off, plot a bit, and serve again.



 
Date: 30 Jan 2009 04:47:54
From: Raja
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Jan 29, 11:36=A0pm, stephenj <s...@cox.com > wrote:
> Greatest doubles team of all time does it again, squashing hantuchova
> and a tiny asian chick.
>
> nice job, ladies!

Is US tennis so fucked up, that you revel in doubles success? LOL



 
Date: 29 Jan 2009 22:11:39
From: Pedro Dias
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Jan 30, 12:36=A0am, stephenj <s...@cox.com > wrote:
> Greatest doubles team of all time does it again, squashing hantuchova
> and a tiny asian chick.
>
> nice job, ladies!

The may well be the *best* doubles team of all time, but they have a
long, long way to go before they come close to Navratilova-Shriver in
terms of titles.



  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 16:39:29
From: Pedro Dias
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Jan 30, 4:56=A0pm, Yama <tj...@NOSPAMpajuoulu.fi > wrote:
> Pedro Dias <pedrod...@snip.net> wrote:
>
> : Women's doubles is pretty non-competitive these days, basically
> : because most top-ranked singles players don't bother playing doubles.
> : But that takes nothing away from the Williams sisters: I still think
> : that they would give any team in history a very tough match. They may
> : not play pretty doubles, but they are very effective.
>
> Probably, but remember, even in the past when they both were much
> better players individually, they still often lost to team made of
> 'inferior' players.

My impression is that they lost have surprisingly seldom. I might be
wrong, never having really followed them all that closely.


   
Date: 30 Jan 2009 18:50:06
From: Georgiana Gates
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
Pedro Dias wrote:
> On Jan 30, 4:56 pm, Yama <tj...@NOSPAMpajuoulu.fi> wrote:
>> Pedro Dias <pedrod...@snip.net> wrote:
>>
>> : Women's doubles is pretty non-competitive these days, basically
>> : because most top-ranked singles players don't bother playing doubles.
>> : But that takes nothing away from the Williams sisters: I still think
>> : that they would give any team in history a very tough match. They may
>> : not play pretty doubles, but they are very effective.
>>
>> Probably, but remember, even in the past when they both were much
>> better players individually, they still often lost to team made of
>> 'inferior' players.
>
> My impression is that they lost have surprisingly seldom. I might be
> wrong, never having really followed them all that closely.
When they play they do well. But I believe that MN-PS routinely played
in all the doubles event.


  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 12:53:54
From: Pedro Dias
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Jan 30, 8:35=A0am, Yama <tj...@NOSPAMpajuoulu.fi > wrote:
> Pedro Dias <pedrod...@snip.net> wrote:
>
> : The may well be the *best* doubles team of all time, but they have a
> : long, long way to go before they come close to Navratilova-Shriver in
> : terms of titles.
>
> They're not anywhere close to best - it's just that women's doubles is
> laughably non-competive these days.

Women's doubles is pretty non-competitive these days, basically
because most top-ranked singles players don't bother playing doubles.
But that takes nothing away from the Williams sisters: I still think
that they would give any team in history a very tough match. They may
not play pretty doubles, but they are very effective.


   
Date: 30 Jan 2009 21:56:56
From: Yama
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
Pedro Dias <pedrodias@snip.net > wrote:
: Women's doubles is pretty non-competitive these days, basically
: because most top-ranked singles players don't bother playing doubles.
: But that takes nothing away from the Williams sisters: I still think
: that they would give any team in history a very tough match. They may
: not play pretty doubles, but they are very effective.

Probably, but remember, even in the past when they both were much
better players individually, they still often lost to team made of
'inferior' players.


   
Date: 30 Jan 2009 16:11:03
From: mimus
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:53:54 -0800, Pedro Dias wrote:

> On Jan 30, 8:35 am, Yama <tj...@NOSPAMpajuoulu.fi> wrote:
>
>> Pedro Dias <pedrod...@snip.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The may well be the *best* doubles team of all time, but they have a
>>> long, long way to go before they come close to Navratilova-Shriver in
>>> terms of titles.
>>
>> They're not anywhere close to best - it's just that women's doubles is
>> laughably non-competive these days.
>
> Women's doubles is pretty non-competitive these days, basically because
> most top-ranked singles players don't bother playing doubles. But that
> takes nothing away from the Williams sisters: I still think that they
> would give any team in history a very tough match. They may not play
> pretty doubles, but they are very effective.

Power is power is power.

It's like what many have discovered and even experienced more than once--
Kuznetsova most recently-- when you're trying to serve out a match against
Serena, you'd better be prepared to handle all that power coming as hard
as it can toward the net . . . .

You'd think you'd see a few more pre-planned lobs in that sitch, frankly.

--

Take a deep breath, take a walk, cool off, plot a bit, and serve again.



  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 11:34:55
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Jan 30, 2:45=A0pm, Georgiana Gates <ram...@hal-pc.org > wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
> > =A0> Georgiana Gates wrote:
>
> >> And, just as I think peakGrafwould beat peak Venus/Serena in
> >> singles, I think MN/PS would beat them in doubles.
>
> > I wouldn't go around saying that publicly - someone might recommend you
> > to be committed.
>
> Oh, come now. We've been over this a million times. If peakGraf(andGrafat=
the end of her career held a H2H over Williams) played Venus or
> Serena a long series of matches *over all surfaces*,Grafwould win.
> Remember,Grafwas a respectable clay player. I will concede that the
> very very best match played by either Venus or Serena might be better
> than the very very best match played byGraf. ...


Graf - Zvereva 60 60 (FO 1988 final)
Graf - Navratilova 57 62 61 (Wimbledon 1988 final)
Graf - Seles 62 61 (Wimbledon 1992 final)
Graf - ASV 60 62 (AO 1994 final)

And which are Serena's four best slam final wins?


Max


  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 08:52:01
From:
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Jan 30, 1:51=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com > wrote:

> Yes! Do not swallow the Williams kool-aid. Worst era ever in WTA history
> RIGHT now. Basically began the day after Henin retired.


Exactly. GIve the sisters credit for taking advantage of the vacuum,
but little else. For some reason, stephen is gaga about the classless
duo. It's probably best not to know why.


  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 08:37:33
From: Raja
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Jan 30, 7:45=A0am, Georgiana Gates <ram...@hal-pc.org > wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
> > =A0> Georgiana Gates wrote:
>
> >> And, just as I think peak Graf would beat peak Venus/Serena in
> >> singles, I think MN/PS would beat them in doubles.
>
> > I wouldn't go around saying that publicly - someone might recommend you
> > to be committed.
>
> Oh, come now. We've been over this a million times. If peak Graf (and
> Graf at the end of her career held a H2H over Williams) played Venus or
> Serena a long series of matches *over all surfaces*, Graf would win.
> Remember, Graf was a respectable clay player.

Respectable? She won 7 FOs and pushed Seles to 10-8 in the middle of a
slump. She was also dominating over Sanchez there. I say she was the
very best on clay, although she considered clay her worst.

> I will concede that the
> very very best match played by either Venus or Serena might be better
> than the very very best match played by Graf. And the same argument
> applies to MN/PS.
>
> I have been greatly impressed BTW of the sistas' behavior in recent
> years. I would never have guessed that they both would have had such a
> long career. Instead, they've continued to play on, although they've
> made a fortune from tennis. And their on-court behavior has improved,
> too. Except perhaps for Sharapova, no other players hang in tough like
> they do.



  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 13:35:08
From: Yama
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
Pedro Dias <pedrodias@snip.net > wrote:
: The may well be the *best* doubles team of all time, but they have a
: long, long way to go before they come close to Navratilova-Shriver in
: terms of titles.

They're not anywhere close to best - it's just that women's doubles is
laughably non-competive these days.


  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 04:39:44
From: Raja
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
On Jan 30, 12:51=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com > wrote:
> "stephenj" <s...@cox.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ckxgl.150$893.52@newsfe13.iad...
>
>
>
> > Pedro Dias wrote:
> >> On Jan 30, 12:36 am, stephenj <s...@cox.com> wrote:
> >>> Greatest doubles team of all time does it again, squashing hantuchova
> >>> and a tiny asian chick.
>
> >>> nice job, ladies!
>
> >> The may well be the *best* doubles team of all time, but they have a
> >> long, long way to go before they come close to Navratilova-Shriver in
> >> terms of titles.
>
> > 'greatest', 'best', yes, what i was trying to convey was they play doub=
les
> > better than anyone ever has, would beat any other team from any other e=
ra.
>
> > the funny thing is that from a form/technical standpoint, they pretty m=
uch
> > suck. a teaching pro could probably identify several errors in form - b=
oth
> > individual and team - in every point they play. but their physical tool=
s
> > are so overwhelming that it just doesn't matter.
>
> > but of course MN/PS is far and away the most accomplished team, what wi=
th
> > 20 or so GS titles.
>
> Yes! Do not swallow the Williams kool-aid.

LOL that is such a racist comment.

> Worst era ever in WTA history
> RIGHT now. Basically began the day after Henin retired.

Even when Henin was playing it was dodgy.



  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 00:43:19
From: stephenj
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
Pedro Dias wrote:
> On Jan 30, 12:36 am, stephenj <s...@cox.com> wrote:
>> Greatest doubles team of all time does it again, squashing hantuchova
>> and a tiny asian chick.
>>
>> nice job, ladies!
>
> The may well be the *best* doubles team of all time, but they have a
> long, long way to go before they come close to Navratilova-Shriver in
> terms of titles.

'greatest', 'best', yes, what i was trying to convey was they play
doubles better than anyone ever has, would beat any other team from any
other era.

the funny thing is that from a form/technical standpoint, they pretty
much suck. a teaching pro could probably identify several errors in form
- both individual and team - in every point they play. but their
physical tools are so overwhelming that it just doesn't matter.

but of course MN/PS is far and away the most accomplished team, what
with 20 or so GS titles.



--
the Roosevelt administration .. has used the war to justify
restrictions of Congressional power, and the assumption of
dictatorial procedures on the part of the President and his
appointees.

- Charles A. Lindbergh, 9/11/41


   
Date: 30 Jan 2009 15:49:35
From: Yama
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
stephenj <sjex@cox.com > wrote:
: 'greatest', 'best', yes, what i was trying to convey was they play
: doubles better than anyone ever has, would beat any other team from any
: other era.

: the funny thing is that from a form/technical standpoint, they pretty
: much suck. a teaching pro could probably identify several errors in form
: - both individual and team - in every point they play. but their
: physical tools are so overwhelming that it just doesn't matter.

: but of course MN/PS is far and away the most accomplished team, what
: with 20 or so GS titles.

50-year old Navratilova was one of the best doubles players of this era...

I mean, c'mon.


   
Date: 30 Jan 2009 06:51:10
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
"stephenj" <sjex@cox.com > wrote in message
news:ckxgl.150$893.52@newsfe13.iad...
> Pedro Dias wrote:
>> On Jan 30, 12:36 am, stephenj <s...@cox.com> wrote:
>>> Greatest doubles team of all time does it again, squashing hantuchova
>>> and a tiny asian chick.
>>>
>>> nice job, ladies!
>>
>> The may well be the *best* doubles team of all time, but they have a
>> long, long way to go before they come close to Navratilova-Shriver in
>> terms of titles.
>
> 'greatest', 'best', yes, what i was trying to convey was they play doubles
> better than anyone ever has, would beat any other team from any other era.
>
> the funny thing is that from a form/technical standpoint, they pretty much
> suck. a teaching pro could probably identify several errors in form - both
> individual and team - in every point they play. but their physical tools
> are so overwhelming that it just doesn't matter.
>
> but of course MN/PS is far and away the most accomplished team, what with
> 20 or so GS titles.
>



Yes! Do not swallow the Williams kool-aid. Worst era ever in WTA history
RIGHT now. Basically began the day after Henin retired.



    
Date: 30 Jan 2009 06:28:59
From: Georgiana Gates
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
Stapler wrote:
> "stephenj" <sjex@cox.com> wrote in message
> news:ckxgl.150$893.52@newsfe13.iad...
>> Pedro Dias wrote:
>>> On Jan 30, 12:36 am, stephenj <s...@cox.com> wrote:
>>>> Greatest doubles team of all time does it again, squashing hantuchova
>>>> and a tiny asian chick.
>>>>
>>>> nice job, ladies!
>>>
>>> The may well be the *best* doubles team of all time, but they have a
>>> long, long way to go before they come close to Navratilova-Shriver in
>>> terms of titles.
>>
>> 'greatest', 'best', yes, what i was trying to convey was they play
>> doubles better than anyone ever has, would beat any other team from
>> any other era.
>>
>> the funny thing is that from a form/technical standpoint, they pretty
>> much suck. a teaching pro could probably identify several errors in
>> form - both individual and team - in every point they play. but their
>> physical tools are so overwhelming that it just doesn't matter.
>>
>> but of course MN/PS is far and away the most accomplished team, what
>> with 20 or so GS titles.
>>
>
>
>
> Yes! Do not swallow the Williams kool-aid. Worst era ever in WTA history
> RIGHT now. Basically began the day after Henin retired.
The Williams were winning doubles tournaments before Henin retired. And,
just as I think peak Graf would beat peak Venus/Serena in singles, I
think MN/PS would beat them in doubles.


     
Date: 30 Jan 2009 07:19:46
From: stephenj
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
> Georgiana Gates wrote:

> And,
> just as I think peak Graf would beat peak Venus/Serena in singles, I
> think MN/PS would beat them in doubles.

I wouldn't go around saying that publicly - someone might recommend you
to be committed.


--
What is liberalism, generally speaking, but an attack
on the existing order of things?

- F. Dostoyevsky


      
Date: 30 Jan 2009 07:45:43
From: Georgiana Gates
Subject: Re: Williams sistas: AO Champs!
stephenj wrote:
> > Georgiana Gates wrote:
>
>> And, just as I think peak Graf would beat peak Venus/Serena in
>> singles, I think MN/PS would beat them in doubles.
>
> I wouldn't go around saying that publicly - someone might recommend you
> to be committed.
>
>
Oh, come now. We've been over this a million times. If peak Graf (and
Graf at the end of her career held a H2H over Williams) played Venus or
Serena a long series of matches *over all surfaces*, Graf would win.
Remember, Graf was a respectable clay player. I will concede that the
very very best match played by either Venus or Serena might be better
than the very very best match played by Graf. And the same argument
applies to MN/PS.

I have been greatly impressed BTW of the sistas' behavior in recent
years. I would never have guessed that they both would have had such a
long career. Instead, they've continued to play on, although they've
made a fortune from tennis. And their on-court behavior has improved,
too. Except perhaps for Sharapova, no other players hang in tough like
they do.