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Date: 21 Jan 2009 18:55:08
From: Deuce
Subject: Women's tennis....
Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.




 
Date: 23 Jan 2009 04:50:28
From:
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 11:38=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com > wrote:
> <csma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:14833210-9306-4d9c-8cc6-e2ef9397c4e8@v5g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 22, 6:55 am, Deuce <rubyadd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.
> >>>I watch sport to see the best of the best, womens tennis doesn't
>
> provide that. I'm not going to spend time watching overstuffed
> turkeys. There is millions to be made in womens tennis, I can't
> believe the standard is so poor. Serena's ass and tits are too big to
> be competing for slams, something is wrong.
>
> <<<<
>
> Shouldn't the fit women be beating her fat ass then?

I agree with you 100%, fit women should be beating fat-ass women, but
they're not... hence the problem.


 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 22:17:27
From: arnab.z@gmail
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On 23 Jan., 05:17, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com > wrote:

>
> Also, some people may feel that dubbing produces a more "realistic"
> experience, even if the dubbing is clumsily done. Hearing dialogue
> rather than reading it may yield more complete immersion in the story
> for some viewers.

Of course. People feel more comfortable hearing their own language
than another language. Dubbing is not exactly helpful for people who
want to learn the foreign language, of course. Dubbing is about
respecting the alpha status of the local language, which is very
important.


  
Date: 23 Jan 2009 13:39:05
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....

"arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zaheen@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:004dba0e-1108-4d6d-b393-99c1a0e6ffe4@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 23 Jan., 05:17, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Also, some people may feel that dubbing produces a more "realistic"
>> experience, even if the dubbing is clumsily done. Hearing dialogue
>> rather than reading it may yield more complete immersion in the story
>> for some viewers.
>
> Of course. People feel more comfortable hearing their own language
> than another language. Dubbing is not exactly helpful for people who
> want to learn the foreign language, of course. Dubbing is about
> respecting the alpha status of the local language, which is very
> important.


lol




 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 15:17:23
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 5:51=A0pm, "*skriptis" <skrip...@post.t-com.hr > wrote:
> "Joe Ramirez" <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8a872b1d-7f1c-444e-ad6f-5682de3f4baa@e25g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 22, 4:52 pm, "*skriptis" <skrip...@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Calimero" <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote in message
>
> >news:516a3381-888d-4c5e-82d2-fbf5f5b9dbf5@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > On Jan 22, 7:15 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> > > <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> > > >And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to
> > > >dubbed
> > > >movies
>
> > > We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
> > > people speak better English than people from some other countries. Yo=
u
> > > automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
> > > texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
> > > has made a mistake.
>
> > > I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
> > > speaking German is beyond ridiculous.
>
> > Why this?
> > "Es gibt zwei Kategorien von Menschen: Die einen haben einen Colt -
> > und die anderen buddeln!" (The Good, The Bad and the Ugly) was quite
> > convincing. Actually his German voice was better. Clint himself sounds
> > a little bit squeaky ...
>
> > ***
>
> > Dubbing is for kids and cartoons. Not for normal adults.
>
> > Missing James Earl Jones' voice as Darth Vader for example.
> > The colour of Bogart's voice in Casablanca..etc.
>
> > It's idiotic.
>
> I would not say "idiotic," because dubbing is commercially necessary
> in most markets, especially for movies intended for mass appeal.
>
> ***
>
> Neccessary? It's not neccessary at all. It's just a habit.

As I said, *commercially* necessary. Many people prefer dubbed movies.
In many cases the preference is so strong that they *will not* view
subtitled films. (Just as many people nowadays will not watch a black
& white film -- sad but true.) IMO that's unfortunate for them, and
bad for the art of cinema, but from the movie studios' perspective, it
doesn't matter why they feel that way -- only that they do. Studios
want to capture the greatest number of ticket buyers possible, and
dubbing is usually required for that purpose. I doubt this will
change.

> I don't see what is there to get when seeing a dubbed movie. Makes it eas=
ier
> to follow as it is difficult to read? lol

Do not discount this factor. There is more illiteracy and semi-
literacy in many countries than you may believe. Again, the business
goal is to provide access to the largest possible market.

Also, some people may feel that dubbing produces a more "realistic"
experience, even if the dubbing is clumsily done. Hearing dialogue
rather than reading it may yield more complete immersion in the story
for some viewers.

Interestingly, I was in Montreal a few weeks ago on a snowboarding
trip, and the TV in our hotel had both French and English channels.
When a French channel showed an Anglophone (usually American)
television show or movie, it was always dubbed in French. I don't
remember seeing anything that was subtitled.

Joe Ramirez


  
Date: 23 Jan 2009 00:37:21
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....

"Joe Ramirez" <josephmramirez@netzero.com > wrote in message
news:08570cba-1256-4285-9d3b-802e74c38722@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
As I said, *commercially* necessary. Many people prefer dubbed movies.
In many cases the preference is so strong that they *will not* view
subtitled films. (Just as many people nowadays will not watch a black
& white film -- sad but true.) IMO that's unfortunate for them, and
bad for the art of cinema, but from the movie studios' perspective, it
doesn't matter why they feel that way -- only that they do. Studios
want to capture the greatest number of ticket buyers possible, and
dubbing is usually required for that purpose. I doubt this will
change.
******

But you haven't payed attention to the thing I said.
No one would watch a dubbed movie here, that film would be in a serious
disadvantage from the start.
It would both lack "reality" and artistic value for us.

So my point it's that it's very subjective what is comercially neccessary.
It's just a habit. In the countries where it's been done ever since, of
course it is "comercially neccessary".

Wrong approach, however.






Interestingly, I was in Montreal a few weeks ago on a snowboarding
trip, and the TV in our hotel had both French and English channels.
When a French channel showed an Anglophone (usually American)
television show or movie, it was always dubbed in French. I don't
remember seeing anything that was subtitled.

***

French like protect their langauge, god forbid word like "cool" or something
like that that enters their slang.
It's language purism and for no good reason when in fact people benefit from
subtitled movies in several ways.




   
Date: 22 Jan 2009 23:48:30
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....

On 22-Jan-2009, "*skriptis" <skriptis@post.t-com.hr > wrote:

> No one would watch a dubbed movie here, that film would be in a serious
> disadvantage from the start.

Did you take a poll or something? Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike
dubbed movies. But I hardly think that it is strictly a cultural thing for
some people to like dubbing.


    
Date: 23 Jan 2009 16:05:58
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:48:30 GMT, "jdeluise" <jdeluise@gmail.com >
wrote:

>
>On 22-Jan-2009, "*skriptis" <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
>
>> No one would watch a dubbed movie here, that film would be in a serious
>> disadvantage from the start.
>
>Did you take a poll or something? Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike
>dubbed movies. But I hardly think that it is strictly a cultural thing for
>some people to like dubbing.

For once I agree 100% with skriptis. Absolutely nobody here would
watch a dubbed movie, except if they wanted to laugh. It is only in
countries people are used to it. If they have always listened Clint
Eastwood speak Geman in Germany, they maybe want to do it in the
future as well.


     
Date: 23 Jan 2009 19:17:43
From: jdeluise
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....

On 23-Jan-2009, Sakari Lund <sakari.lund@welho.com > wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:48:30 GMT, "jdeluise" <jdeluise@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >On 22-Jan-2009, "*skriptis" <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
> >
> >> No one would watch a dubbed movie here, that film would be in a serious
> >> disadvantage from the start.
> >
> >Did you take a poll or something? Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike
> >dubbed movies. But I hardly think that it is strictly a cultural thing
> >for
> >some people to like dubbing.
>
> For once I agree 100% with skriptis. Absolutely nobody here would
> watch a dubbed movie, except if they wanted to laugh. It is only in
> countries people are used to it. If they have always listened Clint
> Eastwood speak Geman in Germany, they maybe want to do it in the
> future as well.

Well, I guess I stand corrected. To be honest, I can't say I've seen a lot
of dubbed movies available in theaters besides martial arts films either.
It seems more likely to find dubbed movies for rent.


     
Date: 23 Jan 2009 11:04:44
From: Javier Gonzalez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
Sakari Lund <sakari.lund@welho.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:48:30 GMT, "jdeluise" <jdeluise@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>On 22-Jan-2009, "*skriptis" <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
>>
>>> No one would watch a dubbed movie here, that film would be in a serious
>>> disadvantage from the start.
>>
>>Did you take a poll or something? Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike
>>dubbed movies. But I hardly think that it is strictly a cultural thing for
>>some people to like dubbing.
>
> For once I agree 100% with skriptis. Absolutely nobody here would
> watch a dubbed movie, except if they wanted to laugh. It is only in
> countries people are used to it. If they have always listened Clint
> Eastwood speak Geman in Germany, they maybe want to do it in the
> future as well.

Here in Chile:

- the only dubbed movies in the cinemas are the children's movies.
- cable tv usually has half the movies/shows subtitled, the other half dubbed.
I avoid dubbed movies/series like the plague, except for a couple where the
dubbing is pretty good (Family Guy and The Simpsons, FG has voices that are
amazingly similar to the originals, and The Simpsons, while not as a close
match, are very well done). Sometimes the dubbed channels will have the
original language track available with SAP, those are good if in english
because I can watch without subtitles :)




    
Date: 23 Jan 2009 01:13:36
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....

"jdeluise" <jdeluise@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:qB7el.12190$8a4.11754@newsfe08.iad...
>
> On 22-Jan-2009, "*skriptis" <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
>
>> No one would watch a dubbed movie here, that film would be in a serious
>> disadvantage from the start.
>
> Did you take a poll or something? Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike
> dubbed movies. But I hardly think that it is strictly a cultural thing
> for
> some people to like dubbing.

I think it is. People become acustomed to everything.

Dubbing is done only for cartoons here so maybe for that reason people find
it not serious, not realistic, and overall, funny. Silly.
It's become a cultural thing..nobody even wants it, thinks about it, and I
most say, people have negative views on dubbing in general. When it comes to
movies.

Whereas in countries where dubbing takes place, most would probably say it's
ok..look at max.




 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 14:23:42
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 4:52=A0pm, "*skriptis" <skrip...@post.t-com.hr > wrote:
> "Calimero" <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote in message
>
> news:516a3381-888d-4c5e-82d2-fbf5f5b9dbf5@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 22, 7:15 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> > <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> > >And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubb=
ed
> > >movies
>
> > We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
> > people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
> > automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
> > texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
> > has made a mistake.
>
> > I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
> > speaking German is beyond ridiculous.
>
> Why this?
> "Es gibt zwei Kategorien von Menschen: Die einen haben einen Colt -
> und die anderen buddeln!" (The Good, The Bad and the Ugly) was quite
> convincing. Actually his German voice was better. Clint himself sounds
> a little bit squeaky ...
>
> ***
>
> Dubbing is for kids and cartoons. Not for normal adults.
>
> Missing James Earl Jones' voice as Darth Vader for example.
> The colour of Bogart's voice in Casablanca..etc.
>
> It's idiotic.

I would not say "idiotic," because dubbing is commercially necessary
in most markets, especially for movies intended for mass appeal. I
agree, however, that subtitling is far superior artistically. Much of
what we call "acting" involves the use of the voice -- tone,
inflections, pace, volume. You can usually appreciate these qualities
to a good extent even if you don't understand the language being
spoken. Eliminating them means you are really watching a different
film.

I agree with Javier and Sakari that subtitling can be educational.
Once in a hotel in Mexico City, I watched an Italian film subtitled in
Spanish. I could read the Spanish pretty well, which enabled me to
figure out some of the Italian (often only subtle differences, of
course), which was fun. Had the film been dubbed, I would have
understood less of the Spanish (easier to read than to comprehend
rapid speech) and I wouldn't have learned any Italian at all. :)

Joe Ramirez


  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 23:51:01
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....

"Joe Ramirez" <josephmramirez@netzero.com > wrote in message
news:8a872b1d-7f1c-444e-ad6f-5682de3f4baa@e25g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 22, 4:52 pm, "*skriptis" <skrip...@post.t-com.hr > wrote:
> "Calimero" <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote in message
>
> news:516a3381-888d-4c5e-82d2-fbf5f5b9dbf5@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 22, 7:15 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> > <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> > >And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to
> > >dubbed
> > >movies
>
> > We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
> > people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
> > automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
> > texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
> > has made a mistake.
>
> > I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
> > speaking German is beyond ridiculous.
>
> Why this?
> "Es gibt zwei Kategorien von Menschen: Die einen haben einen Colt -
> und die anderen buddeln!" (The Good, The Bad and the Ugly) was quite
> convincing. Actually his German voice was better. Clint himself sounds
> a little bit squeaky ...
>
> ***
>
> Dubbing is for kids and cartoons. Not for normal adults.
>
> Missing James Earl Jones' voice as Darth Vader for example.
> The colour of Bogart's voice in Casablanca..etc.
>
> It's idiotic.

I would not say "idiotic," because dubbing is commercially necessary
in most markets, especially for movies intended for mass appeal.

***

Neccessary? It's not neccessary at all. It's just a habit.
Is someone dubbed a movie here no one would watch it. Not a single person.
Maybe it could pass as a trash comedy.

However, if that custom were somehow "enforced" and mainatned for decades
then I believe people would want foreign films to be dubbed.
So my point is, in the end, it's a matter of choice and what becomes a
habit. And countires that started dubbing just made a wrong decision.

Subtitlies are way ahead in every aspect.
Artistic (like you mentioned - top reason.)
Language issues (easy to pick on a new langauge)
Deaf people can enjoy films as well..

I don't see what is there to get when seeing a dubbed movie. Makes it easier
to follow as it is difficult to read? lol
I actually miss more of when I watch a film in my native language then when
I watch foreign film with subtitles. Sometime you misshear something or
similar.

But, that's just imo.




 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 13:28:27
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 8:38=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com > wrote:
> <csma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:14833210-9306-4d9c-8cc6-e2ef9397c4e8@v5g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 22, 6:55 am, Deuce <rubyadd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.
> >>>I watch sport to see the best of the best, womens tennis doesn't
>
> provide that. I'm not going to spend time watching overstuffed
> turkeys. There is millions to be made in womens tennis, I can't
> believe the standard is so poor. Serena's ass and tits are too big to
> be competing for slams, something is wrong.
>
> <<<<
>
> Shouldn't the fit women be beating her fat ass then?


When the fit women are even less talented?

Max


 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 13:26:45
From: Calimero
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 7:15=A0pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> >And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
> >movies
>
> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
> people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
> has made a mistake.
>
> I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
> speaking German is beyond ridiculous.


Why this?
"Es gibt zwei Kategorien von Menschen: Die einen haben einen Colt -
und die anderen buddeln!" (The Good, The Bad and the Ugly) was quite
convincing. Actually his German voice was better. Clint himself sounds
a little bit squeaky ...

Max


  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 22:52:07
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....

"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > wrote in message
news:516a3381-888d-4c5e-82d2-fbf5f5b9dbf5@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 22, 7:15 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> >And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
> >movies
>
> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
> people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
> has made a mistake.
>
> I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
> speaking German is beyond ridiculous.


Why this?
"Es gibt zwei Kategorien von Menschen: Die einen haben einen Colt -
und die anderen buddeln!" (The Good, The Bad and the Ugly) was quite
convincing. Actually his German voice was better. Clint himself sounds
a little bit squeaky ...


***

Dubbing is for kids and cartoons. Not for normal adults.

Missing James Earl Jones' voice as Darth Vader for example.
The colour of Bogart's voice in Casablanca..etc.


It's idiotic.




 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 10:10:14
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 12:53=A0pm, Professor X <sueboka...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 22, 5:44=A0pm, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 22, 12:27=A0pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:11:47 -0800 (PST), Joe Ramirez
>
> > > <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> > > >On Jan 22, 11:58=A0am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
> > > >> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> > > >> <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> On Jan 22, 2:39=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
> > > >> >>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >> >>>news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegrou=
ps.com... >>>Thetoprankshavebeen decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenpo=
rt,
>
> > > >> >>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has los=
t all of
> > > >> >>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the n=
ew
> > > >> >>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going=
.
>
> > > >> >>> <<<<
>
> > > >> >>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban =
Dictionary.
>
> > > >> >> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an Am=
erican
> > > >> >> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World=
War
> > > >> >> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so=
widely
> > > >> >> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake=
" for
> > > >> >> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the u=
sage,
> > > >> >> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>
> > > >> >Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake"=
used for
> > > >> >anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.
>
> > > >> Me too.
>
> > > >That doesn't really surprise me. You guys are very good English
> > > >speakers (writers, actually),
>
> > > How do you know we are not good speakers too? =A0:-)
>
> > You very well may be, but the evidence is not before me, and I want to
> > be precise in a thread like this one. :)
>
> > > > but you aren't from English-speaking
> > > >countries. U.S. slang moves first to Canada (notice that Patrick kno=
ws
> > > >the term) and then the U.K., and after that you'll have to ask a
> > > >linguist. U.S. slang of this particular vintage is probably best kno=
wn
> > > >to non-Americans in places where the United States has had a militar=
y
> > > >presence.
>
> > > I could have learnt it from movies or TV series. You learn a lot of
> > > things like that from there.
>
> > Of course. Could have, but didn't in this case. As I said, not
> > surprising. Not inevitable, but not surprising. I would never expect a
> > non-native speaker to know every piece of our slang even if I assumed
> > he would be familiar with some of it.
>
> > Joe Ramirez
>
> Not really. We all talk like someone out of a shakespeare play over
> here, honest.
> Consequently, the only Cheesecake I know of is from when i have high
> tea with the queen at 3 O'Clock, since we all do actually know the
> queen.

Er, you are not a non-native speaker, Sir X.

Joe Ramirez



 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 09:53:43
From: Professor X
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 5:44=A0pm, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com > wrote:
> On Jan 22, 12:27=A0pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:11:47 -0800 (PST), Joe Ramirez
>
> > <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> > >On Jan 22, 11:58=A0am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> > >> <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> > >> >> On Jan 22, 2:39=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
> > >> >>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> > >> >>>news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups=
.com... >>>Thetoprankshave been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenpor=
t,
>
> > >> >>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost =
all of
> > >> >>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
> > >> >>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>
> > >> >>> <<<<
>
> > >> >>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Di=
ctionary.
>
> > >> >> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an Amer=
ican
> > >> >> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World W=
ar
> > >> >> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so w=
idely
> > >> >> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" =
for
> > >> >> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usa=
ge,
> > >> >> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>
> > >> >Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" u=
sed for
> > >> >anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.
>
> > >> Me too.
>
> > >That doesn't really surprise me. You guys are very good English
> > >speakers (writers, actually),
>
> > How do you know we are not good speakers too? =A0:-)
>
> You very well may be, but the evidence is not before me, and I want to
> be precise in a thread like this one. :)
>
> > > but you aren't from English-speaking
> > >countries. U.S. slang moves first to Canada (notice that Patrick knows
> > >the term) and then the U.K., and after that you'll have to ask a
> > >linguist. U.S. slang of this particular vintage is probably best known
> > >to non-Americans in places where the United States has had a military
> > >presence.
>
> > I could have learnt it from movies or TV series. You learn a lot of
> > things like that from there.
>
> Of course. Could have, but didn't in this case. As I said, not
> surprising. Not inevitable, but not surprising. I would never expect a
> non-native speaker to know every piece of our slang even if I assumed
> he would be familiar with some of it.
>
> Joe Ramirez

Not really. We all talk like someone out of a shakespeare play over
here, honest.
Consequently, the only Cheesecake I know of is from when i have high
tea with the queen at 3 O'Clock, since we all do actually know the
queen.


 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 10:09:07
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 12:35=A0pm, Javier Gonzalez <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com > wrote:
> Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 22, 11:58=A0am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> >> <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Jan 22, 2:39=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
> >> >>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >> >>>news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.c=
om... >>>Thetopranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport=
,
>
> >> >>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost al=
l of
> >> >>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
> >> >>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>
> >> >>> <<<<
>
> >> >>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dict=
ionary.
>
> >> >> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an Americ=
an
> >> >> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World War
> >> >> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so wid=
ely
> >> >> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" fo=
r
> >> >> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usage=
,
> >> >> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>
> >> >Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" use=
d for
> >> >anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.
>
> >> Me too.
>
> > That doesn't really surprise me. You guys are very good English
> > speakers (writers, actually), but you aren't from English-speaking
> > countries. U.S. slang moves first to Canada (notice that Patrick knows
> > the term) and then the U.K., and after that you'll have to ask a
> > linguist. U.S. slang of this particular vintage is probably best known
> > to non-Americans in places where the United States has had a military
> > presence.
>
> My first source of english slang was Stephen King and Tom Clancy novels.

From the book "Stephen King from A to Z":
"King's first sale was 'Graveyard Shift,' for which he earned $250. As
per magazine policy, all rights were purchased, but subsidiary rights
reverted to King on request of Nye Willden, Cavalier's editor.
"Since Cavalier is a cheesecake magazine with salacious ads, King
couldn't send a photocopy to his mother of the story as is, so he
carefully 'blocked out all the ads for glossy photos and films' of
young women in provocative poses, then made copies to send to his
mother."

Joe Ramirez


 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 09:44:14
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 12:27=A0pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:11:47 -0800 (PST), Joe Ramirez
>
>
>
>
>
> <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 22, 11:58=A0am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> >> <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Jan 22, 2:39=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
> >> >>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >> >>>news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.c=
om... >>>Thetopranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport=
,
>
> >> >>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost al=
l of
> >> >>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
> >> >>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>
> >> >>> <<<<
>
> >> >>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dict=
ionary.
>
> >> >> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an Americ=
an
> >> >> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World War
> >> >> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so wid=
ely
> >> >> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" fo=
r
> >> >> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usage=
,
> >> >> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>
> >> >Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" use=
d for
> >> >anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.
>
> >> Me too.
>
> >That doesn't really surprise me. You guys are very good English
> >speakers (writers, actually),
>
> How do you know we are not good speakers too? =A0:-)

You very well may be, but the evidence is not before me, and I want to
be precise in a thread like this one. :)

> > but you aren't from English-speaking
> >countries. U.S. slang moves first to Canada (notice that Patrick knows
> >the term) and then the U.K., and after that you'll have to ask a
> >linguist. U.S. slang of this particular vintage is probably best known
> >to non-Americans in places where the United States has had a military
> >presence.
>
> I could have learnt it from movies or TV series. You learn a lot of
> things like that from there.

Of course. Could have, but didn't in this case. As I said, not
surprising. Not inevitable, but not surprising. I would never expect a
non-native speaker to know every piece of our slang even if I assumed
he would be familiar with some of it.

Joe Ramirez



 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 09:29:06
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 12:24=A0pm, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On 22 Jan, 17:11, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 22, 11:58=A0am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> > > <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> > > >Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> > > >> On Jan 22, 2:39=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
> > > >>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >>>news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.=
com... >>>Thetoprankshave been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport=
,
>
> > > >>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost a=
ll of
> > > >>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
> > > >>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>
> > > >>> <<<<
>
> > > >>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dic=
tionary.
>
> > > >> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an Ameri=
can
> > > >> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World Wa=
r
> > > >> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so wi=
dely
> > > >> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" f=
or
> > > >> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usag=
e,
> > > >> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>
> > > >Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" us=
ed for
> > > >anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.
>
> > > Me too.
>
> > That doesn't really surprise me. You guys are very good English
> > speakers (writers, actually), but you aren't from English-speaking
> > countries. U.S. slang moves first to Canada (notice that Patrick knows
> > the term) and then the U.K., and after that you'll have to ask a
> > linguist. U.S. slang of this particular vintage is probably best known
> > to non-Americans in places where the United States has had a military
> > presence.
>
> > Joe Ramirez
>
> I think it may also be an age thing. At 61 I know the term (living in
> the UK), but I'm not sure my own children will know it.

Yes, that's true too. The usage may die out eventually because there
are now so many other bits of slang available to express the same
concept (and the concept itself may be quaint, considering today's
much more explicit norms).

Joe Ramirez


 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 09:24:03
From: topspin
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On 22 Jan, 17:11, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com > wrote:
> On Jan 22, 11:58=A0am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
> > <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> > >Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> > >> On Jan 22, 2:39=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
> > >>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> > >>>news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.co=
m... >>>Thetopranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
>
> > >>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all=
of
> > >>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
> > >>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>
> > >>> <<<<
>
> > >>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dicti=
onary.
>
> > >> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an America=
n
> > >> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World War
> > >> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so wide=
ly
> > >> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" for
> > >> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usage,
> > >> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>
> > >Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" used=
for
> > >anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.
>
> > Me too.
>
> That doesn't really surprise me. You guys are very good English
> speakers (writers, actually), but you aren't from English-speaking
> countries. U.S. slang moves first to Canada (notice that Patrick knows
> the term) and then the U.K., and after that you'll have to ask a
> linguist. U.S. slang of this particular vintage is probably best known
> to non-Americans in places where the United States has had a military
> presence.
>
> Joe Ramirez

I think it may also be an age thing. At 61 I know the term (living in
the UK), but I'm not sure my own children will know it.


 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 09:11:47
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 11:58=A0am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>
>
>
>
>
> <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> >Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
> >> On Jan 22, 2:39=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
> >>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com.=
.. >>>Thetop ranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
>
> >>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all o=
f
> >>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
> >>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>
> >>> <<<<
>
> >>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Diction=
ary.
>
> >> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an American
> >> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World War
> >> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so widely
> >> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" for
> >> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usage,
> >> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>
> >Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" used f=
or
> >anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.
>
> Me too.

That doesn't really surprise me. You guys are very good English
speakers (writers, actually), but you aren't from English-speaking
countries. U.S. slang moves first to Canada (notice that Patrick knows
the term) and then the U.K., and after that you'll have to ask a
linguist. U.S. slang of this particular vintage is probably best known
to non-Americans in places where the United States has had a military
presence.

Joe Ramirez


  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56
From: Javier Gonzalez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
Joe Ramirez <josephmramirez@netzero.com > wrote:
> On Jan 22, 11:58 am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
>> >Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> >> On Jan 22, 2:39 am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>> >>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>>news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...>>>Thetop ranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
>>
>> >>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all of
>> >>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
>> >>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>>
>> >>> <<<<
>>
>> >>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dictionary.
>>
>> >> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an American
>> >> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World War
>> >> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so widely
>> >> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" for
>> >> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usage,
>> >> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>>
>> >Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" used for
>> >anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.
>>
>> Me too.
>
> That doesn't really surprise me. You guys are very good English
> speakers (writers, actually), but you aren't from English-speaking
> countries. U.S. slang moves first to Canada (notice that Patrick knows
> the term) and then the U.K., and after that you'll have to ask a
> linguist. U.S. slang of this particular vintage is probably best known
> to non-Americans in places where the United States has had a military
> presence.

My first source of english slang was Stephen King and Tom Clancy novels.

And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
movies and original books over translated ones. Unless they completely rewrite
the script (like they did for Shrek), a lot will stop making sense, and also
you will lose the original inflections and the sound/character of the original
language.

For books, it's the same - I still vividly remember a Clancy book I read, that
in spanish had some meaningless references to using firearms on cattle.

In the original, they where just shooting the bull ;)


   
Date: 23 Jan 2009 09:32:57
From: Edward McArdle
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
In article <scnm46-trr.ln1@despair.pu239.ru >, Javier Gonzalez
<ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com > wrote:

>
>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
>movies and original books over translated ones.

Except where they put white text over a white background!!

--
Edward McArdle


    
Date: 23 Jan 2009 02:15:38
From: Javier Gonzalez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
Edward McArdle <mcardle@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> In article <scnm46-trr.ln1@despair.pu239.ru>, Javier Gonzalez
> <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
>>movies and original books over translated ones.
>
> Except where they put white text over a white background!!

That sure is annoying. And it usually happens when the film is in a language
you have no chance in hell of understanding. Is it in english? Low chance of
that. Is it an early Jet Li movie in chinese? You bet your ass half the
subtitles are white on white background :)


   
Date: 22 Jan 2009 20:15:39
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
<ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com > wrote:

>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
>movies

We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
has made a mistake.

I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
speaking German is beyond ridiculous.




    
Date: 22 Jan 2009 17:48:25
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:15:39 +0200, Sakari Lund <sakari.lund@welho.com > wrote:

>I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
>speaking German is beyond ridiculous.

In the late '60s, when I was stationed in Germany, the high point of our week
was to go to a gasthouse each Sunday night to watch Bonanza in German. There was
something about a soprano Pa Cartright saying "Was ist los, Hoss?" that just
cracked us up...

Still does, actually... 8;)

-- Larry


    
Date: 22 Jan 2009 15:24:54
From: Ted S.
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:15:39 +0200, Sakari Lund wrote:

> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
> people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
> has made a mistake.

<http://www.jounipaakkinen.fi/kaannos.html >

<snip >

American Inventor (Kaiken maailman keksijät):
"You may think this is bad, that's your opinion."
"Eurooppalainen voi pitää tätä huonona."

</snip >

:-)

--
Ted Schuerzinger
tedstennis at myrealbox dot com
If you're afraid of the ball, don't sit in the front row. --Anastasia
Rodionova


     
Date: 23 Jan 2009 00:54:53
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:24:54 -0500, "Ted S."
<tedstennis@myrealbox.com > wrote:

>On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:15:39 +0200, Sakari Lund wrote:
>
>> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
>> people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
>> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
>> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
>> has made a mistake.
>
><http://www.jounipaakkinen.fi/kaannos.html>
>
><snip>
>
>American Inventor (Kaiken maailman keksijät):
>"You may think this is bad, that's your opinion."
>"Eurooppalainen voi pitää tätä huonona."
>
></snip>
>
>:-)

Thanks, there is a lot stuff. Too bad people don't understand it here.
Here is something anyway:

America's Next Top Model (Huippumalli haussa):
"Evil Shandi tonight, she looks kind of like a Paris Hilton wannabe."
"Evil Shandi näyttää tänään haluavan Pariisiin Hiltoniin.

Walker, Texas Ranger:
"I used to play wide receiver for Dallas Cowboys."
"Olin laaja vastaanotin."

Late Night with Conan O'Brien:
"...I was listening to your fuckin' tape."
"...kuuntelin sinun naimista, nauhalta."

Saturday Night Live:
"Here's the 42nd president, Bill Clinton."
"Seuraavaksi neljänkymmenen sekunnin presidentti Bill Clinton."

Loukussa olevalle naiselle:
"Hang in there, I'll get some help!"
"Hirttäydy sinne, haen apua!"

(this is newsgroup related)
Law & Order: SVU (Kova laki: Erikoisyksikkö)
"Alt.sex.teen" (nyyssiryhmä)
"Vaihtoehtoseksinuoret"







    
Date: 22 Jan 2009 19:45:01
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....

"Sakari Lund" <sakari.lund@welho.com > wrote in message
news:hcdhn4tfs4htsku7qr36v093mv0i9f65t2@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
> <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
>
>>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
>>movies
>
> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
> people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
> has made a mistake.
>
> I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
> speaking German is beyond ridiculous.


I must disagree with you, I once saw Worf speaking Hochdeutsch and it looked
good.



But seriously, how do you mean you've only seen dubbed movies abroad?
They do that sick things only in "big" countries, like Germany, France.




     
Date: 22 Jan 2009 21:56:41
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:45:01 +0100, "*skriptis"
<skriptis@post.t-com.hr > wrote:

>
>"Sakari Lund" <sakari.lund@welho.com> wrote in message
>news:hcdhn4tfs4htsku7qr36v093mv0i9f65t2@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>> <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
>>>movies
>>
>> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
>> people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
>> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
>> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
>> has made a mistake.
>>
>> I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
>> speaking German is beyond ridiculous.
>
>
>I must disagree with you, I once saw Worf speaking Hochdeutsch and it looked
>good.
>
>
>
>But seriously, how do you mean you've only seen dubbed movies abroad?
>They do that sick things only in "big" countries, like Germany, France.

So? Then I have probably seen it in Germany or France. I don't
remember where. Or at least I have seen it shown on TV here, that they
show how movies sound in Germany. But I think I have seen it somewhere
abroad too.



    
Date: 22 Jan 2009 15:16:21
From: Javier Gonzalez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
Sakari Lund <sakari.lund@welho.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
> <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
>
>>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
>>movies
>
> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
> people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
> has made a mistake.
>
> I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
> speaking German is beyond ridiculous.

You know what's really funny about dubbings? Most are done by the same studio,
so you end up with the same crews doing a ton of shows/movies, so there's the
"generic leading male voice", "generic heroine voice", "generic villian voice",
and so on. And now and then some bizarre mixups, like hearing Steve Buscemi
with the same voice they used for, say, Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry :)


     
Date: 25 Jan 2009 09:32:19
From:
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
In article <lopm46-1tr.ln1@despair.pu239.ru >, ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com
(Javier Gonzalez) wrote:

> Sakari Lund <sakari.lund@welho.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
> > <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to
> dubbed
> >>movies
> >
> > We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one
> > reason
> > people speak better English than people from some other
> > countries. You
> > automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read
> > the
> > texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if
> > he/she
> > has made a mistake.
> >
> > I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
> > speaking German is beyond ridiculous.
>
> You know what's really funny about dubbings? Most are done by the
> same studio,
> so you end up with the same crews doing a ton of shows/movies, so
> there's the
> "generic leading male voice", "generic heroine voice", "generic
> villian voice",
> and so on. And now and then some bizarre mixups, like hearing Steve
> Buscemi
> with the same voice they used for, say, Clint Eastwood in Dirty
> Harry :)

I know - to an English speaker it's awful. I was staying with a guy in
Germany once and had to beg him to turn off Casablanca because I couldn't
stand hearing someone else voice Ingrid Bergman.

The most bizarre to me was - when I used to flip through the German
satellite channels on Astra - the very deep gruff voice German TV had
voicing Bugs Bunny, and also the spectacle of seeing Hogan's Heroes on
German TV dubbed into German. Just bizarre.

wg


      
Date: 25 Jan 2009 12:20:45
From: Ted S.
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:32:19 -0600, wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

> I know - to an English speaker it's awful. I was staying with a guy in
> Germany once and had to beg him to turn off Casablanca because I
> couldn't stand hearing someone else voice Ingrid Bergman.

It's much worse than that. Rick's famous line "Here's lookin' at you,
kid!" got translated as "Ich schau' Dir in die Augen, Kleines!"

For those who don't speak German, that means, "I look you in the eyes,
little one!"

--
Ted Schuerzinger
tedstennis at myrealbox dot com
If you're afraid of the ball, don't sit in the front row. --Anastasia
Rodionova


       
Date: 28 Jan 2009 07:33:17
From:
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
In article <nwxcyc92c3r3.dlg@tedstennis.tripod.com >,
tedstennis@myrealbox.com (Ted S.) wrote:

> Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
> From: "Ted S." <tedstennis@myrealbox.com>
> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:20:45 -0500
>
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:32:19 -0600, wendyg@cix.compulink.co.uk
> wrote:
>
> > I know - to an English speaker it's awful. I was staying with a
> > guy in
> > Germany once and had to beg him to turn off Casablanca because I
> > couldn't stand hearing someone else voice Ingrid Bergman.
>
> It's much worse than that. Rick's famous line "Here's lookin' at
> you,
> kid!" got translated as "Ich schau' Dir in die Augen, Kleines!"
>
> For those who don't speak German, that means, "I look you in the
> eyes,
> little one!"

I'm so glad I made him turn it off, as rude as that was.

wg


     
Date: 23 Jan 2009 09:36:42
From: Edward McArdle
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
In article <lopm46-1tr.ln1@despair.pu239.ru >, Javier Gonzalez
<ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com > wrote:

>Sakari Lund <sakari.lund@welho.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>> <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
>>>movies
>>
>> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
>> people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
>> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
>> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
>> has made a mistake.
>>
>> I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
>> speaking German is beyond ridiculous.
>
>You know what's really funny about dubbings? Most are done by the same studio,
>so you end up with the same crews doing a ton of shows/movies, so there's the
>"generic leading male voice", "generic heroine voice", "generic villian voice",
>and so on. And now and then some bizarre mixups, like hearing Steve Buscemi
>with the same voice they used for, say, Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry :)

One of those things that sticks in your mind...

I saw a show about Laurel and Hardy where it was revealed that when sound
came in the actors did the scene. Then they did it in French. Then they
did it in German. Then...

All these scenes learned phonetically. Presumably a lot of the early sound
actors did the same.

--
Edward McArdle


      
Date: 25 Jan 2009 09:32:21
From:
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
In article <mcardle-2301090936420001@192.168.1.2 >, mcardle@ozemail.com.au
(Edward McArdle) wrote:

>
> In article <lopm46-1tr.ln1@despair.pu239.ru>, Javier Gonzalez
> <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Sakari Lund <sakari.lund@welho.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
> >> <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies
> to dubbed
> >>>movies
> >>
> >> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one
> reason
> >> people speak better English than people from some other
> countries. You
> >> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read
> the
> >> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if
> he/she
> >> has made a mistake.
> >>
> >> I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint
> Eastwood
> >> speaking German is beyond ridiculous.
> >
> >You know what's really funny about dubbings? Most are done by the
> same studio,
> >so you end up with the same crews doing a ton of shows/movies, so
> there's the
> >"generic leading male voice", "generic heroine voice", "generic
> villian voice",
> >and so on. And now and then some bizarre mixups, like hearing
> Steve Buscemi
> >with the same voice they used for, say, Clint Eastwood in Dirty
> Harry :)
>
> One of those things that sticks in your mind...
>
> I saw a show about Laurel and Hardy where it was revealed that when
> sound
> came in the actors did the scene. Then they did it in French. Then
> they
> did it in German. Then...
>
> All these scenes learned phonetically. Presumably a lot of the
> early sound
> actors did the same.

Not silent, of course, but apparently when Jimmy Stewart won an acting
award in France he called the actor who dubbed him into French up on stage
with him to accept it jointly.

wg


     
Date: 22 Jan 2009 19:46:54
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....

"Javier Gonzalez" <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com > wrote in message
news:lopm46-1tr.ln1@despair.pu239.ru...
> Sakari Lund <sakari.lund@welho.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:35:56 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>> <ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>And, in the vein of multi-languages: I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed
>>>movies
>>
>> We have every movie at cinemas and on TV subtitled. That's one reason
>> people speak better English than people from some other countries. You
>> automatically learn to simultaneously listen the dialogue, read the
>> texts, AND notice how the translator has translated it and if he/she
>> has made a mistake.
>>
>> I have only seen dubbed movies abroad. Someone like Clint Eastwood
>> speaking German is beyond ridiculous.
>
> You know what's really funny about dubbings? Most are done by the same
> studio,
> so you end up with the same crews doing a ton of shows/movies, so there's
> the
> "generic leading male voice", "generic heroine voice", "generic villian
> voice",
> and so on. And now and then some bizarre mixups, like hearing Steve
> Buscemi
> with the same voice they used for, say, Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry :)


That's nothing more but a butchering of a an audio-visual piece of art.




  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 19:27:21
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:11:47 -0800 (PST), Joe Ramirez
<josephmramirez@netzero.com > wrote:

>On Jan 22, 11:58 am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <ja.gon....@gmmmmail.com> wrote:
>> >Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> >> On Jan 22, 2:39 am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>> >>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>>news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...>>>Thetop ranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
>>
>> >>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all of
>> >>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
>> >>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>>
>> >>> <<<<
>>
>> >>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dictionary.
>>
>> >> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an American
>> >> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World War
>> >> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so widely
>> >> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" for
>> >> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usage,
>> >> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>>
>> >Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" used for
>> >anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.
>>
>> Me too.
>
>That doesn't really surprise me. You guys are very good English
>speakers (writers, actually),

How do you know we are not good speakers too? :-)

> but you aren't from English-speaking
>countries. U.S. slang moves first to Canada (notice that Patrick knows
>the term) and then the U.K., and after that you'll have to ask a
>linguist. U.S. slang of this particular vintage is probably best known
>to non-Americans in places where the United States has had a military
>presence.

I could have learnt it from movies or TV series. You learn a lot of
things like that from there.



 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 08:36:43
From: Patrick Kehoe
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 21, 11:39=A0pm, "Stapler" <d...@d.com > wrote:
> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...>=
>>The top ranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
>
> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all of
> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>
> <<<<
>
> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dictionary.

++ Do you like eating cheesecake? Think of it that way...

P



 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 08:01:56
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 2:39=A0am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com > wrote:
> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...>=
>>The top ranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
>
> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all of
> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>
> <<<<
>
> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dictionary.

Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an American
slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World War
II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so widely
understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" for
men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usage,
though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.

Joe Ramirez


  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57
From: Javier Gonzalez
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
Joe Ramirez <josephmramirez@netzero.com > wrote:
> On Jan 22, 2:39 am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...>>>The top ranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
>>
>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all of
>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>>
>> <<<<
>>
>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dictionary.
>
> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an American
> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World War
> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so widely
> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" for
> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usage,
> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.

Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" used for
anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.


   
Date: 25 Jan 2009 09:32:19
From:
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
In article <t3km46-hqr.ln1@despair.pu239.ru >, ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com
(Javier Gonzalez) wrote:

>
> Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake"
> used for
> anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.

Hm. It is, however, true, that it's been in common usage for pinup girl
photos for a long time.

wg


   
Date: 22 Jan 2009 18:58:22
From: Sakari Lund
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:39:57 -0300, Javier Gonzalez
<ja.gon.zal@gmmmmail.com > wrote:

>Joe Ramirez <josephmramirez@netzero.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 22, 2:39 am, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>>> <bjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...>>>The top ranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
>>>
>>> Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all of
>>> it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
>>> players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.
>>>
>>> <<<<
>>>
>>> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dictionary.
>>
>> Interesting -- what country are you from? "Cheesecake" is an American
>> slang term for pinup girl photos that goes back to before World War
>> II. It's not an "urban dictionary" neologism, and in fact is so widely
>> understood that it has spawned analogous words (e.g., "beefcake" for
>> men). I would guess than many Britons are acquainted with the usage,
>> though I don't know about English speakers elsewhere.
>
>Believe it or not, this is the first time I've heard "cheesecake" used for
>anything but a delicious creamcheese-based dessert.

Me too.


 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 05:33:09
From:
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
)g.
>
> <<<<
>
> What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dictionary.

You know how to use Google don't you?



 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 07:46:50
From: John Doe
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
Deuce <rubyaddict@hotmail.com > wrote:

> Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.

Jelena Jankovic is fun to watch play tennis, IMO, she is a good sport
and usually looks like she is enjoying herself out there (snd she does
not shriek/grunt). Looking forward to her first video, haha.



--
Land Skis (rough terrain skates). The first rollerblades with a big
front wheel and small trailing wheels, to help roll over obstacles
while maintaining a low stance.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/3056505603


 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 23:04:26
From:
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 22, 6:55=A0am, Deuce <rubyadd...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.

I watch sport to see the best of the best, womens tennis doesn't
provide that. I'm not going to spend time watching overstuffed
turkeys. There is millions to be made in womens tennis, I can't
believe the standard is so poor. Serena's ass and tits are too big to
be competing for slams, something is wrong.


  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 07:38:41
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
<csman35@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:14833210-9306-4d9c-8cc6-e2ef9397c4e8@v5g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 22, 6:55 am, Deuce <rubyadd...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.

>>>I watch sport to see the best of the best, womens tennis doesn't
provide that. I'm not going to spend time watching overstuffed
turkeys. There is millions to be made in womens tennis, I can't
believe the standard is so poor. Serena's ass and tits are too big to
be competing for slams, something is wrong.

<<<<

Shouldn't the fit women be beating her fat ass then?



 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 21:52:11
From:
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 21, 9:49=A0pm, Trevor Smithson <trevor_smith...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:55:08 -0800 (PST), Deuce
>
> <rubyadd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.
>
> Yeah. =A0I know it's out of favor here these days, but I still like it.
>
> Nice hottie ratio doesn't hurt.

The top ranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all of
it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.


  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 07:39:21
From: Stapler
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
<bjmet1@aol.com > wrote in message
news:984f13b0-10e9-4582-bfa2-fb46fa7bf869@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>>The top ranks have been decimated lately: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport,
Hingis, Myskina, Capriati, Sharapova, the women's game has lost all of
it's great rivalries. True, there are some hotties among the new
players, but cheesecake is hardly enough to keep a sport going.

<<<<

What is "cheesecake", not everyone here is an expert in Urban Dictionary.



 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 21:49:12
From: Trevor Smithson
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:55:08 -0800 (PST), Deuce
<rubyaddict@hotmail.com > wrote:

>Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.

Yeah. I know it's out of favor here these days, but I still like it.

Nice hottie ratio doesn't hurt.


 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 19:15:48
From: Lax
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
On Jan 21, 9:55=A0pm, Deuce <rubyadd...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.

Not me.


  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 04:38:17
From: Petter Solbu
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
Lax wrote:
> On Jan 21, 9:55 pm, Deuce <rubyadd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.
>
> Not me.

Not if Kirilenko or Ivanovic isn't playing. :-) I am just watching some
of Serena's game at the moment which is a choking comedy. Too bad
Eurosport's Barbara Schett is not playing anymore. She is hot!

PS.


   
Date: 22 Jan 2009 21:45:08
From: Edward McArdle
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
In article <s7WdnSvZdOazd-rU4p2dnAA@telenor.com >, Petter Solbu
<pettermann1984@hotmail.com > wrote:

>Lax wrote:
>> On Jan 21, 9:55 pm, Deuce <rubyadd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Does anybody here watch it these days? Just curious.
>>
>> Not me.
>
>Not if Kirilenko or Ivanovic isn't playing. :-) I am just watching some
>of Serena's game at the moment which is a choking comedy. Too bad
>Eurosport's Barbara Schett is not playing anymore. She is hot!
>
>PS.

You can't have been watching the match I saw today, Serena V Gisela Dulko.
It was one of the best matches I have seen in a long time. They both
looked like they were about to collapse in the heat after one really long
game - then they both came out belting the ball again.

--
Edward McArdle


    
Date: 22 Jan 2009 13:06:45
From: Petter Solbu
Subject: Re: Women's tennis....
Edward McArdle wrote:

> You can't have been watching the match I saw today, Serena V Gisela Dulko.
> It was one of the best matches I have seen in a long time. They both
> looked like they were about to collapse in the heat after one really long
> game - then they both came out belting the ball again.

To me it looked like none of them handled pressure. They both did so
many stupid mistakes when given the chance to win a game.

PS.