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Date: 01 Feb 2009 05:23:07
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites him
as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild errors.
The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display. I
should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)

Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota of
miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did a
good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to his
game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of the
match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized that
all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.

This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer has
collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a semi-
tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paralyzed
with fear.

On the other hand, go Steelers!

Joe Ramirez




 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 06:33:12
From: kaennorsing
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
On 1 feb, 15:30, kaennorsing <ljubit...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On 1 feb, 14:37, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 8:35=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 1, 8:29=A0am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 1, 8:23=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote=
:
>
> > > > > Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
> > > > > focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites =
him
> > > > > as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* hi=
s
> > > > > intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild er=
rors.
> > > > > The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
> > > > > fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display=
. I
> > > > > should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>
> > > > > Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quo=
ta of
> > > > > miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did=
a
> > > > > good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking t=
o his
> > > > > game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of th=
e
> > > > > match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
> > > > > aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized t=
hat
> > > > > all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with =
a
> > > > > good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>
> > > > > This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer =
has
> > > > > collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a =
semi-
> > > > > tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paral=
yzed
> > > > > with fear.
>
> > > > > On the other hand, go Steelers!
>
> > > > > Joe Ramirez
>
> > > > Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose i=
t.
>
> > > > Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
> > > > 6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
> > > > that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of hi=
s
> > > > mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for him =
in
> > > > all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire for him.
>
> > > > He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third =
and
> > > > then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped up y=
et
> > > > again.
>
> > > > My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would be=
a
> > > > combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and heart =
and
> > > > focus of Rafa.
>
> > > I think the fact that golf does not involve direct, head-to-head play
> > > is also a critical difference. I think Fed's sheer talent is the equa=
l
> > > of Tiger's, but he gets excessively nervous and fearful when playing
> > > Nadal. If he could somehow play his matches in the abstract, simplyin=
g
> > > applying his talent and concentration to ball-striking challenges, he
> > > wouldn't choke the way he does against Nadal. Rafa intimidates him in
> > > a way that's really difficult for anyone to do to an opponent in golf=
.
>
> > > Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > But can you imagine Tiger repeatedly coming up short if there were
> > some guy with less talent who wasn't afraid
> > of him and was always in his same final group on Sunday?
>
> If Rafa didn't make some miraculous trademark gets and winners Federer
> would have been with his nose in front several times in the match.
> This puts a pressure on Federer=B4s mind and paralyses his body. IMO he
> would need to be stronger *physically* to overcome this pressure and
> still execute an aggressive game in crucial moments of the match.

correction: ...*to* still execute an aggressive game in crucial
moments of the match.


 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 06:30:32
From: kaennorsing
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
On 1 feb, 14:37, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:35=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 8:29=A0am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 1, 8:23=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
> > > > focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites hi=
m
> > > > as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
> > > > intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild erro=
rs.
> > > > The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
> > > > fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display. =
I
> > > > should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>
> > > > Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota=
of
> > > > miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did a
> > > > good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to =
his
> > > > game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of the
> > > > match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
> > > > aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized tha=
t
> > > > all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
> > > > good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>
> > > > This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer ha=
s
> > > > collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a se=
mi-
> > > > tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paralyz=
ed
> > > > with fear.
>
> > > > On the other hand, go Steelers!
>
> > > > Joe Ramirez
>
> > > Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose it.
>
> > > Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
> > > 6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
> > > that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of his
> > > mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for him in
> > > all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire for him.
>
> > > He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third an=
d
> > > then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped up yet
> > > again.
>
> > > My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would be a
> > > combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and heart an=
d
> > > focus of Rafa.
>
> > I think the fact that golf does not involve direct, head-to-head play
> > is also a critical difference. I think Fed's sheer talent is the equal
> > of Tiger's, but he gets excessively nervous and fearful when playing
> > Nadal. If he could somehow play his matches in the abstract, simplying
> > applying his talent and concentration to ball-striking challenges, he
> > wouldn't choke the way he does against Nadal. Rafa intimidates him in
> > a way that's really difficult for anyone to do to an opponent in golf.
>
> > Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> But can you imagine Tiger repeatedly coming up short if there were
> some guy with less talent who wasn't afraid
> of him and was always in his same final group on Sunday?

If Rafa didn't make some miraculous trademark gets and winners Federer
would have been with his nose in front several times in the match.
This puts a pressure on Federer=B4s mind and paralyses his body. IMO he
would need to be stronger *physically* to overcome this pressure and
still execute an aggressive game in crucial moments of the match.


  
Date: 02 Feb 2009 18:30:15
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
kaennorsing wrote:
> On 1 feb, 14:37, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>> But can you imagine Tiger repeatedly coming up short if there were
>> some guy with less talent who wasn't afraid
>> of him and was always in his same final group on Sunday?
>
> If Rafa didn't make some miraculous trademark gets and winners Federer
> would have been with his nose in front several times in the match.
> This puts a pressure on Federerīs mind and paralyses his body. IMO he
> would need to be stronger *physically* to overcome this pressure and
> still execute an aggressive game in crucial moments of the match.


Yes - also keep in mind what a fresh Rafa woulda done to Fed.




   
Date: 02 Feb 2009 11:52:12
From: Superdave
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:30:15 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au >
wrote:

>kaennorsing wrote:
>> On 1 feb, 14:37, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> But can you imagine Tiger repeatedly coming up short if there were
>>> some guy with less talent who wasn't afraid
>>> of him and was always in his same final group on Sunday?
>>
>> If Rafa didn't make some miraculous trademark gets and winners Federer
>> would have been with his nose in front several times in the match.
>> This puts a pressure on Federerīs mind and paralyses his body. IMO he
>> would need to be stronger *physically* to overcome this pressure and
>> still execute an aggressive game in crucial moments of the match.
>
>
>Yes - also keep in mind what a fresh Rafa woulda done to Fed.
>


keep in mind that you are the cuda/wuda GOAT !



 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 05:52:07
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
On Feb 1, 8:37=A0am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:35=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 8:29=A0am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 1, 8:23=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
> > > > focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites hi=
m
> > > > as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
> > > > intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild erro=
rs.
> > > > The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
> > > > fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display. =
I
> > > > should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>
> > > > Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota=
of
> > > > miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did a
> > > > good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to =
his
> > > > game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of the
> > > > match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
> > > > aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized tha=
t
> > > > all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
> > > > good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>
> > > > This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer ha=
s
> > > > collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a se=
mi-
> > > > tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paralyz=
ed
> > > > with fear.
>
> > > > On the other hand, go Steelers!
>
> > > > Joe Ramirez
>
> > > Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose it.
>
> > > Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
> > > 6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
> > > that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of his
> > > mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for him in
> > > all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire for him.
>
> > > He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third an=
d
> > > then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped up yet
> > > again.
>
> > > My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would be a
> > > combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and heart an=
d
> > > focus of Rafa.
>
> > I think the fact that golf does not involve direct, head-to-head play
> > is also a critical difference. I think Fed's sheer talent is the equal
> > of Tiger's, but he gets excessively nervous and fearful when playing
> > Nadal. If he could somehow play his matches in the abstract, simplying
> > applying his talent and concentration to ball-striking challenges, he
> > wouldn't choke the way he does against Nadal. Rafa intimidates him in
> > a way that's really difficult for anyone to do to an opponent in golf.
>
> > Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> But can you imagine Tiger repeatedly coming up short if there were
> some guy with less talent who wasn't afraid
> of him and was always in his same final group on Sunday?

Not really, but again, golf doesn't have matchup issues. Nothing any
opponent does can make it physically tougher for Tiger to make his
shots. In tennis, the physical bleeds over into the mental, and then
vice versa. Fed isn't a mental weakling against Nadal for no reason at
all -- it's because Nadal's tenacity and style actually do make it
more difficult for Federer to physically execute his own game.

Joe Ramirez


  
Date: 01 Feb 2009 15:17:31
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
Joe Ramirez wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:37 am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Feb 1, 8:35 am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 1, 8:29 am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> On Feb 1, 8:23 am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
>>>>> focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites
>>>>> him as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet
>>>>> *down* his intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame
>>>>> serving, wild errors. The first service break for Nadal in the
>>>>> 5th came on a Fed double fault and three bad errors. What an
>>>>> unchampionship-worthy display. I should have gone snowboarding
>>>>> again instead. :)
>>
>>>>> Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good
>>>>> quota of miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He
>>>>> also did a good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and
>>>>> sticking to his game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the
>>>>> beginning of the match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal
>>>>> was reasonably aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal
>>>>> wisely recognized that all he needed to do was keep the ball in
>>>>> play, hitting hard with a good margin for error, and Federer
>>>>> would handle the rest.
>>
>>>>> This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer
>>>>> has collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to
>>>>> be a semi- tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just
>>>>> seemed paralyzed with fear.
>>
>>>>> On the other hand, go Steelers!
>>
>>>>> Joe Ramirez
>>
>>>> Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose
>>>> it.
>>
>>>> Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
>>>> 6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
>>>> that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of
>>>> his mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for
>>>> him in all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire
>>>> for him.
>>
>>>> He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third
>>>> and then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped
>>>> up yet again.
>>
>>>> My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would
>>>> be a combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and
>>>> heart and focus of Rafa.
>>
>>> I think the fact that golf does not involve direct, head-to-head
>>> play is also a critical difference. I think Fed's sheer talent is
>>> the equal of Tiger's, but he gets excessively nervous and fearful
>>> when playing Nadal. If he could somehow play his matches in the
>>> abstract, simplying applying his talent and concentration to
>>> ball-striking challenges, he wouldn't choke the way he does against
>>> Nadal. Rafa intimidates him in a way that's really difficult for
>>> anyone to do to an opponent in golf.
>>
>>> Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> But can you imagine Tiger repeatedly coming up short if there were
>> some guy with less talent who wasn't afraid
>> of him and was always in his same final group on Sunday?
>
> Not really, but again, golf doesn't have matchup issues. Nothing any
> opponent does can make it physically tougher for Tiger to make his
> shots. In tennis, the physical bleeds over into the mental, and then
> vice versa. Fed isn't a mental weakling against Nadal for no reason at
> all -- it's because Nadal's tenacity and style actually do make it
> more difficult for Federer to physically execute his own game.
>
> Joe Ramirez


His bumrooting prefference is costing him...he can't outbumroot Rafa and
he's become ian nept volleyer if he has ever been a good one so can't
execute.
HE is a great talent but excelled in one-dimensional era.

Like Whisper said long time agos, Fed likes to massage the ball before he
hits a winner. It doesn't work against Rafa.

Options are either:

1. outbumrooting him, which obviosly doesn't work.
2. go for winner all the time, a la blake, risky and uncertain
3. adopt more s/v, *do not retreat* after few passing shots





   
Date: 02 Feb 2009 18:19:14
From: Whisper
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
*skriptis wrote:
> Joe Ramirez wrote:
>> On Feb 1, 8:37 am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Feb 1, 8:35 am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 1, 8:29 am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 1, 8:23 am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
>>>>>> focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites
>>>>>> him as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet
>>>>>> *down* his intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame
>>>>>> serving, wild errors. The first service break for Nadal in the
>>>>>> 5th came on a Fed double fault and three bad errors. What an
>>>>>> unchampionship-worthy display. I should have gone snowboarding
>>>>>> again instead. :)
>>>>>> Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good
>>>>>> quota of miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He
>>>>>> also did a good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and
>>>>>> sticking to his game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the
>>>>>> beginning of the match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal
>>>>>> was reasonably aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal
>>>>>> wisely recognized that all he needed to do was keep the ball in
>>>>>> play, hitting hard with a good margin for error, and Federer
>>>>>> would handle the rest.
>>>>>> This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer
>>>>>> has collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to
>>>>>> be a semi- tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just
>>>>>> seemed paralyzed with fear.
>>>>>> On the other hand, go Steelers!
>>>>>> Joe Ramirez
>>>>> Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose
>>>>> it.
>>>>> Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
>>>>> 6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
>>>>> that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of
>>>>> his mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for
>>>>> him in all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire
>>>>> for him.
>>>>> He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third
>>>>> and then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped
>>>>> up yet again.
>>>>> My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would
>>>>> be a combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and
>>>>> heart and focus of Rafa.
>>>> I think the fact that golf does not involve direct, head-to-head
>>>> play is also a critical difference. I think Fed's sheer talent is
>>>> the equal of Tiger's, but he gets excessively nervous and fearful
>>>> when playing Nadal. If he could somehow play his matches in the
>>>> abstract, simplying applying his talent and concentration to
>>>> ball-striking challenges, he wouldn't choke the way he does against
>>>> Nadal. Rafa intimidates him in a way that's really difficult for
>>>> anyone to do to an opponent in golf.
>>>> Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> But can you imagine Tiger repeatedly coming up short if there were
>>> some guy with less talent who wasn't afraid
>>> of him and was always in his same final group on Sunday?
>> Not really, but again, golf doesn't have matchup issues. Nothing any
>> opponent does can make it physically tougher for Tiger to make his
>> shots. In tennis, the physical bleeds over into the mental, and then
>> vice versa. Fed isn't a mental weakling against Nadal for no reason at
>> all -- it's because Nadal's tenacity and style actually do make it
>> more difficult for Federer to physically execute his own game.
>>
>> Joe Ramirez
>
>
> His bumrooting prefference is costing him...he can't outbumroot Rafa and
> he's become ian nept volleyer if he has ever been a good one so can't
> execute.
> HE is a great talent but excelled in one-dimensional era.
>
> Like Whisper said long time agos, Fed likes to massage the ball before he
> hits a winner. It doesn't work against Rafa.
>
> Options are either:
>
> 1. outbumrooting him, which obviosly doesn't work.
> 2. go for winner all the time, a la blake, risky and uncertain
> 3. adopt more s/v, *do not retreat* after few passing shots
>
>
>



Agreed.



 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 05:37:44
From:
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
On Feb 1, 8:35=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com > wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:29=A0am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 8:23=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
> > > Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
> > > focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites him
> > > as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
> > > intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild errors=
.
> > > The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
> > > fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display. I
> > > should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>
> > > Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota o=
f
> > > miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did a
> > > good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to hi=
s
> > > game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of the
> > > match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
> > > aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized that
> > > all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
> > > good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>
> > > This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer has
> > > collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a semi=
-
> > > tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paralyzed
> > > with fear.
>
> > > On the other hand, go Steelers!
>
> > > Joe Ramirez
>
> > Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose it.
>
> > Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
> > 6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
> > that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of his
> > mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for him in
> > all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire for him.
>
> > He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third and
> > then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped up yet
> > again.
>
> > My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would be a
> > combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and heart and
> > focus of Rafa.
>
> I think the fact that golf does not involve direct, head-to-head play
> is also a critical difference. I think Fed's sheer talent is the equal
> of Tiger's, but he gets excessively nervous and fearful when playing
> Nadal. If he could somehow play his matches in the abstract, simplying
> applying his talent and concentration to ball-striking challenges, he
> wouldn't choke the way he does against Nadal. Rafa intimidates him in
> a way that's really difficult for anyone to do to an opponent in golf.
>
> Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

But can you imagine Tiger repeatedly coming up short if there were
some guy with less talent who wasn't afraid
of him and was always in his same final group on Sunday?


 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 05:35:19
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
On Feb 1, 8:29=A0am, jasoncatlin1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:23=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
> > focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites him
> > as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
> > intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild errors.
> > The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
> > fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display. I
> > should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>
> > Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota of
> > miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did a
> > good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to his
> > game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of the
> > match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
> > aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized that
> > all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
> > good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>
> > This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer has
> > collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a semi-
> > tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paralyzed
> > with fear.
>
> > On the other hand, go Steelers!
>
> > Joe Ramirez
>
> Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose it.
>
> Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
> 6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
> that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of his
> mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for him in
> all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire for him.
>
> He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third and
> then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped up yet
> again.
>
> My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would be a
> combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and heart and
> focus of Rafa.

I think the fact that golf does not involve direct, head-to-head play
is also a critical difference. I think Fed's sheer talent is the equal
of Tiger's, but he gets excessively nervous and fearful when playing
Nadal. If he could somehow play his matches in the abstract, simplying
applying his talent and concentration to ball-striking challenges, he
wouldn't choke the way he does against Nadal. Rafa intimidates him in
a way that's really difficult for anyone to do to an opponent in golf.

Joe Ramirez


 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 05:29:39
From:
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
On Feb 1, 8:23=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com > wrote:
> Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
> focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites him
> as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
> intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild errors.
> The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
> fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display. I
> should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>
> Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota of
> miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did a
> good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to his
> game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of the
> match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
> aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized that
> all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
> good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>
> This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer has
> collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a semi-
> tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paralyzed
> with fear.
>
> On the other hand, go Steelers!
>
> Joe Ramirez

Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose it.

Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of his
mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for him in
all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire for him.

He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third and
then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped up yet
again.

My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would be a
combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and heart and
focus of Rafa.


  
Date: 01 Feb 2009 11:36:28
From: Javier Gonzalez
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
jasoncatlin1971@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:23 am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
>> focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites him
>> as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
>> intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild errors.
>> The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
>> fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display. I
>> should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>>
>> Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota of
>> miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did a
>> good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to his
>> game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of the
>> match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
>> aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized that
>> all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
>> good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>>
>> This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer has
>> collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a semi-
>> tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paralyzed
>> with fear.
>>
>> On the other hand, go Steelers!
>>
>> Joe Ramirez
>
> Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose it.
>
> Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
> 6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
> that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of his
> mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for him in
> all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire for him.
>
> He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third and
> then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped up yet
> again.
>
> My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would be a
> combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and heart and
> focus of Rafa.

There is no Tiger Woods of tennis because tennis and golf aren't comparable.


  
Date: 01 Feb 2009 14:44:20
From: *skriptis
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
jasoncatlin1971@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:23 am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
>> focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites him
>> as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
>> intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild
>> errors. The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed
>> double fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy
>> display. I should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>>
>> Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota
>> of miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did
>> a good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to
>> his game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of
>> the match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
>> aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized that
>> all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
>> good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>>
>> This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer has
>> collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a
>> semi- tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed
>> paralyzed with fear.
>>
>> On the other hand, go Steelers!
>>
>> Joe Ramirez
>
> Yep, I agree. This was Fed's match to lose and he managed to lose it.
>
> Even serving 30-some-odd percent in the second set he still won it
> 6-3, breaking Rafa twice, so no one can argue
> that Fed had little hope in this match if he didn't serve out of his
> mind. Of course, the fact is his serve was sub-par or poor for him in
> all but the fourth set and he did need that weapon to fire for him.
>
> He also had everything seemingly his way near the end of the third and
> then the same inability to win the points against Rafa cropped up yet
> again.
>
> My verdict: there is no Tiger Woods of tennis because that would be a
> combination of these two: the talent of Fed and the mind and heart and
> focus of Rafa.

imo heart, mind, focus are all part og "talent". just like "technique" which
federer has the best.




 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 05:29:21
From: Joe Ramirez
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
On Feb 1, 8:26=A0am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 1, 7:23=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
> > focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites him
> > as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
> > intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild errors.
> > The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
> > fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display. I
> > should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>
> > Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota of
> > miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did a
> > good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to his
> > game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of the
> > match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
> > aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized that
> > all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
> > good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>
> > This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer has
> > collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a semi-
> > tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paralyzed
> > with fear.
>
> > On the other hand, go Steelers!
>
> > Joe Ramirez
>
> He simply choked thats all.

Yes, I guess you could say that. Certainly the fifth set was an
exercise in self-suffocation.

Joe Ramirez


 
Date: 01 Feb 2009 05:26:15
From: Raja
Subject: Re: Wow -- what a miserable fifth set from Federer
On Feb 1, 7:23=A0am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com > wrote:
> Federer needs to take some lessons from Serena Williams on how to
> focus and fight when doom is at hand(ironically, she often cites him
> as a role model). For some reason he decided to ratchet *down* his
> intensity in the fifth set -- passive play, lame serving, wild errors.
> The first service break for Nadal in the 5th came on a Fed double
> fault and three bad errors. What an unchampionship-worthy display. I
> should have gone snowboarding again instead. :)
>
> Credit to Nadal fighting hard (as always), pulling off a good quota of
> miracle gets, and attacking nicely with his backhand. He also did a
> good job of shrugging off whatever fatigue he felt and sticking to his
> game plan. Frankly, I don't think the plan at the beginning of the
> match was "let Federer self-destruct" -- Nadal was reasonably
> aggressive (for him). But in the fifth, Nadal wisely recognized that
> all he needed to do was keep the ball in play, hitting hard with a
> good margin for error, and Federer would handle the rest.
>
> This is the second time in their last three matches that Federer has
> collapsed in the final set. At Roland Garros it appeared to be a semi-
> tank once victory was out of reach, but here he just seemed paralyzed
> with fear.
>
> On the other hand, go Steelers!
>
> Joe Ramirez

He simply choked thats all.